The Bavarians or the Barbarians Have Breached the Gates of Edom (part 1)
It is 2am. I could not let this night pass without publishing what could be best described as a small post. Starting on the 16th of Tamuz a so called German Iranian (or is is Aryan?) has unleashed upon the world a mass murder wave worldwide that has not been seen since WW2. We mourn the death of the victims who were children of Ali D. Sonboly whether or not he yelled Allahu Akhbar when he gunned down his victims outside of a Munich McDonalds. But lest we forget we also mourn the death of the one million Jewish children whom Hitler slaughtered, whose slaughter had its nascent beginnings in that very city. It was so bad this past Saturday, the 17th of Tamuz, that the Mayor of Munich declared a "Day of Mourning". Hmmm. And since Saturday, the Gates of Unholy hell have been unleashed upon the Western World: Munich, Ft. Myers, Tokyo, and a bunch of other places in southern Germany.
This is what is going on in the world. HaShem has found the Root of Evil and has unleashed it on the entire world on the 17th of Tamuz! The Great Beer Hall Putsch that lead to the Writing of Mein Kampf It is very late. Good night for now.
This is what is going on in the world. HaShem has found the Root of Evil and has unleashed it on the entire world on the 17th of Tamuz! The Great Beer Hall Putsch that lead to the Writing of Mein Kampf It is very late. Good night for now.
posted by Dov Bar-Leib at 7/26/2016 02:54:00 AM
302 Comments:
"Awaken yourself! Awaken yourself! Arise, O Jerusalem, you who have drunk from the hand of Hashem the cup of His fury. You have drunk from and drained the sediments of the cup of bewilderment....
Behold, I have removed the cup of bewilderment from your hand; from the sediments of the cup of My fury shall you no longer drink any more. But, I will put it into the hand of your tormentors, who have said to your soul, 'Prostrate yourself so that we may pass over you,' for whom you have made your body like the ground and like a street for passersby." (Isaiah 51:17, 22)
TODAY we have seen this prophecy fulfilled before our very eyes!! The cup has surely passed from us to them. Baruch Hashem!!
Rav Dov, this post came at the right time, the start of the open collision between Yishmael and Edom. Already France is organising the Civil Guard thus realising that there is a civil war going on inside the country.
But the Munich events have a special significance as related to the past, as you iterated above, the organised extermination of the Jews.
One issues to note is the difference between the Western and Eastern Europe in terms of the outcomes. We have noticed that Russia protects Yisrael, thus H' will save those who saves the Jews.
There are Jews in Germany, it will be interesting to see if they realise the crude reality happening there.
Excuse me, Ben, but how exactly does Russia "protect" Israel?
Somewhat off topic but something I have recently been thinking about. For a while I have thought that Moshiach is going to come and/or there will be a big war (or meteor) and SUDDENLY everything will change and there will be no USA anymore, no nothing anymore and it will be sudden. But now I have a different train of thought that things will change and a lot of institutions and governments will have their demise but it won't be a total and universal collapse. I am thinking there will be like parallel universes going on where there is unprecedented turmoil while at the same time people do continue to live their lives relatively uneffected for several years while Moshiach takes his throne. I am wondering if there are any sources that describe how things will unfold....or back this up or not.
iy"h I hope I have described what I am thinking clearly enough...
Devash, Russian 'protects' Israel by arming Hezbollah and backing Iran's nuclear aims. This is so touching. What a mentsch, that Putin. I'm verlempt! ;-)
ISISL kill an 84 year old priest in Saint-Etienne-du Rouvray, adjacent to Rouen in North France. That town is the site of the oldest known about preserved Jewish monument in Western Europe. (see link) http://www.rouen-histoire.com/mj/E_monj.htm
Reb Dov, remember a post a while ago where you discussed the flags of several nations and how they reveal the “nature” of the people of that country? Well, just look at the flag of Turkey – A huge RED flag with a white sickle/star in the middle. All that red, like blood. They are a ruthless country and their ruler is a psychopath.
And the Russian flag is Red, White and Blue, with the blue between the red and white. Same colors as America.
Putin is proYisrael. See Rabbi M. KESSIN talking about Putin and his love for the Jews.
Putin and Bibi are good friend, out PM met Putin a couple of time recently. But not Obama.
Conclusion?
Ram
There are many things to respond to here. Starting with Putin, he is probably the first Russian nationalist in all of Russian history who is NOT instinctively an anti-Semite. This is true. And he blessed us when he visited the Kotel that we should build the 3rd Temple one day. Well, at least he blessed a Russian Jew who was davening at the Kotel at 1:30 in the morning when he concluded the Western Wall Tunnel tour with his spiritual adviser Rav Berel Lazer, the Chief Rav of Russia who is also a Chabad shaliach of the highest order. There are lots of good things to say about Putin as an individual and his relationships with the Jewish community in Russia and his personal relationships with Russian Jews here in Israel.
But Beware! He still represents the voracious Russian Bear! Yes, Bears are voracious.....I should know. As the leader of Russia, he will not hesitate to drop us like a dead weight to pursue what he believes is Russia's national interests. And yes, he is still in that vein a KGB trained Russian dictator and in according to some accounts, a ruthless one when you cross him. True, he does not personally hate us, and he is not going to pursue a personal vendetta against Bibi or the rest of us as Obama and Hollande etc. surely have over the last 7 1/2 years. Yet, if he sees a way to support his political alliance in Syria with Assad at our expense, he will surely do so if he sees no other way to further his goals as leader of the Russian Empire.
Thanks for the comprehensive conclusion Rav Dov.
To EM Jerusalem: Big Rabanim assert olam haba being fundamentaly different than olam haze. Rabbis Mizrachi, Kessin, Anava, Kin, Dror, Artsi, talk about a change in consciousness after Mashiach's arrival. So there won't be a total collapse, but a shift caused by the presence of shekhinah.
Ram
Russian flag colors are the same of the commonwealth, because they are the Masonic colors par excellence.Inés
I meant in the time before he is crowned....I understand that there will be about 2 years before Moshiach is accepted and crowned King. Dov can you please confirm this?
Major major major evil being perpetuated in Europe and the whole world. Starting to boil over from the cauldron...
Leah: sorry to say this, but what is bad for Europe is Good for us. We can now throw the EU out of Area C if we had a real leader...which we likely do not. Tear down all their structures temporary and permanent and literally kick them in the booty out of this country. Tell them to deal with their only Islamists, and after they have bathed in their own blood for supporting murder and mayhem in the Holy Land against Jews, they can think about coming back here to pontificate to us. They are done for.
EM: There are two "opposing" opinions about the miraculous nature of our Final Redemption, the Left vs. the Right brain amongst our Rishonim (the RamBaM vs. the RaMBaN). The analytic RaMBaM tells us that the redemption will be natural. That Mashiach will arise, and he will outline his goals. He will achieve his goals one by one, and then he will be crowned. The one distinction between this Age and the Messianic Era is that we and our Temple Mount will not be trodden under by the gentiles. That is it from the perspective of the RamBaM. Of course we will rebuild the Temple, and Mashiach will be the King of Kings in the World. Truth will be Popular in the World, but this will be achieved naturally according to the RambaM. The RambaN begs to differ. He says when it says that on the Temple Mount, the lion will lie down with the lamb, then the lion will lie down with the lamb!! a supernatural event since lions normally do not lie down with lambs. How do we reconcile the two?
continued....
The key to reconciliation between the Rambam and the Ramban is to understand the relative holiness of the places in the world
Holiest 1. Holy of Holies
2. Ezrat HaKohanim (Courtyard of the Kohanim)
3. Ezrat Yisrael and Ezrat HaNashim (Courtyards of Yisrael and the Jewish women)
3. Temple Mount and the Court of the Gentiles outside of the Chiel
4. Yerushalayim within the Walls of the Old City and the City of David (which today is outside of the wall of the Old City)
5. Yerushalayim and its immediate contiguous neighborhoods and suburbs
6. Eretz Yisrael
7. The Entire Globe of Earth
The closer that we are to the heart of where G-d will rest His Name, the more openly miraculous will be the events that will redeem it. That is the key. So the lion will lie down with the lamb on the slopes of the Temple Mount but not necessarily throughout the rest of Eretz Yisrael and of course throughout the rest of the world. The hills of Yerushalayinm between Geva Binyamin and Givat Rimon (Pomegranate Hill) in Efrat will all be turned into a plain, another miraculous event, but this won't happen to the rest of Eretz Yisrael or to the entire world. Now HaShem will show the nations of the world some open miracles just to convince them that their opinion about the way things should be no longer counts. Only His opinion counts. Yet, if you want to be privy to more open miracles, you will have to be closer in to the Holy of Holies to observe them during this process. For the most part, to the outside world in, let us say... Trump Towers in New York, the process will be natural indeed.
Leah: sorry to say this, but what is bad for Europe is Good for us. We can now throw the EU out of Area C if we had a real leader...which we likely do not. Tear down all their structures temporary and permanent and literally kick them in the booty out of this country. Tell them to deal with their own Islamists, and after they have bathed in their own blood for supporting murder and mayhem in the Holy Land against Jews, they can think about coming back here to pontificate to us. They are done for.
Neshama: Yes, the flag of Turkey reflects the fact that at one time Istanbul was Constantinople and was one of the two capitals of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire split in two, with the eastern half becoming the Byzantine "Roman Catholic" Empire. Later on in the 11th Century, the religion of the Byzantine Empire broke away from the Roman Church in Rome and became the Greek Orthodox religion headquartered in Constantinople. Both of them (Rome and Constantinople) were Edomic and Xtian. So the red flag of Turkey reflects this. On the subject of Erdogan himself, I think that he is the gilgul of Constantine. So the two feet of Nebuchadnezzar's dream reflect the iron (Xtianity) mired with clay (Islam). The Western foot in Rome, Maryland aka Washington DC is Obama who is a Muslim pretending to be a Xtian. The Eastern foot is in Istanbul and is Erdogan who is really a Xtian from its founding who publicly practices his version of Sultanate Islam. This explains who Erdogan really is. He is Constantine pretending to be a servant of Allah while revering Islam's latter day madman/prophet/pedophile.
Yes, the colors of FreeMasonry are red (Edom), White (Lavan), and Blue (a bit of Judaic Qabbalah mixed in). It is why the US calls itself "Judeo-Xtian". The Lavan part though is interesting since the purpose of serving G-d in America is to make money, one of Lavan's favorite philosophical subjects. So Yaakov tells Lavan, let us trade and do business in Gilead (Gal Eid), but stay away from my kids.
https://unitedwithisrael.org/report-german-government-donating-millions-to-bds-groups/
Got it, Dov. Thank you and I forwarding a link to your site to a new reader.
EM: In a previous post Rav Dov estimated the coming of Mashiach in the year 5778 based on correlations with known events such as the years 1948 and 1967-68. It appears very realistic observing the current developments, especially the Yishmael-Edom collision.
There are 2 more years for major events, as exposed in the Tanakh, Zohar, etc.
1. Natural disasters
2. The wars of Gog and Magog
3. The annihilation of Erev Rav
4. The demise of Yishmael following own galut.
During the 2 years time the Holy Spirit, Shekhinah, will become more and more powerful across the world purring from The Temple Mount.
We do observe the Yom HaDin in motion, countries who along history sinned against the Jewish people are being punished. Even specific locations such as the famous Munich city is a clear example, as this post points out. The proof is undeniable.
Even more predictions can be made by people having ruach hakodesh, such as Rav Kanievsky.
2. The disappearance of 2/3 of world population
3.
Right but what I am saying is that perhaps these "big" events maybe some of them have happened already or might needin't happen and life will progress as usual for some (Ashrei) while choas ensues for others (Oy). For instance while WW2 was going on some people still went to the bakery every day and held jobs, played with their grand-children, etc. The details are not so important. I understood what Dov was saying that it WILL be both total chaos, miracles and b'derech teva all happening at once.
Dov did you say it is possible that Moshiach will arrive or be crowned in 5778?
Lake in Iran turns red like a pool of blood. Any end of days interpretation?
a small correction: Here are the pasukim in Yeshayahu 11 where several predators are placed in close proximity to cud chewers in the Messianic Era:
6 And a wolf shall live with a lamb, and a leopard shall lie with a kid; and a calf and a lion cub and a fatling [shall lie] together, and a small child shall lead them. ו וְגָר זְאֵב עִם כֶּבֶשׂ וְנָמֵר עִם גְּדִי יִרְבָּץ וְעֵגֶל וּכְפִיר וּמְרִיא יַחְדָּו וְנַעַר קָטֹן נֹהֵג בָּם:
7 And a cow and a bear shall graze together, their children shall lie; and a lion, like cattle, shall eat straw. ז וּפָרָה וָדֹב תִּרְעֶינָה יַחְדָּו יִרְבְּצוּ יַלְדֵיהֶן וְאַרְיֵה כַּבָּקָר יֹאכַל תֶּבֶן:
So from this we see that in reality, it is a leopard (or tiger) that lies down with a kid (or lamb amongst the goats), and it is a wolf who lives with a sheep, and a calf and a young lion and a fatling shall lie together. Each of these needs to be analyzed specifically in their nuance amongst the meforshim. I will look at that later. good night for now.
R' Mendel Kessin, 21st Century #4 - Trump, Putin, & Mashiach
But he leaves out China and the fact that Obama is poking the bear and the dragon, not wise.
interesting, most people in the world remember the lion lying with the lamb, including this soul. don't recall the wolf being mentioned in that verse at all. perhaps this thing called the mandela/quantum effect is actually valid. life is like a box of chocolates/life was like a box of chocolates.
Islam is a socio-religious cancer aiming to destroy human civilisation of today. The world is twisted anyway, we assist at evil fighting evil.
Western Europe and America are invaded by barbarians, people of the desert perpetuating the desert culture, cutting throats, stealing, hitting from the back.
As long as such people master the sanctuary of H' on Har Habayit they are unstoppable. Only Yisrael can save the world from complete destruction by throwing out Yishmael from there. It has to happen otherwise the entire world will be annihilated. So, at a certain point in time this event will occur, at that moment starts the demise of Yishmael.
See the articles of Raymond Ibrahim about the nature of Islam.
I don’t know if anyone saw my post, Leopard befriends baby deer, because it is just what you are talking about. There are many other such instances of predators befriending their prey.
שהרבי הריי"צ משתחרר משפאלרקע - עומד הרבי ומודיע לקהל בדרך שהוא עובר ממקום מתחת תחנת רכבת, שלא אותי בלבד גאל הקב"ה בי"ב תמוז, כ"א את כל מחבבי תורתנו הקדושה. ז"א הגאולה שהיתה לרבי היא לא גאולה פרטית שלו אלא גאולה כללית של כאו"א מישראל. כ"א כל מחבבי תוה"ק שומרי מצוה, היינו חושבים שרק אלה הדתיים והחרדים אלה הם שנגאלו, אומר לא וגם את אשר בשם ישראל יכונה. ז"א אותו אחד שהוא יודע שהוא יהודי בגלל שאמא שלו גילתה לו שהוא יהודי, חוץ מזה הוא לא יודע מה זה יהודי. גם הוא נגאל. בי"ב י"ג תמוז. וגאולה של כל בני ישראל שקשורה עם הגאולה האמיתית והשלימה ע"י משיח צדקנו, כיון ושם גאולה עלה.
Thanks for mentioning the quantum mandela effect, I've been looking into it for hours today and it's fascinating and surely real. But the Wolf Living with the Lamb definitely has been a part of the prophecy from the beginning. There's even been a restaurant by the name (Wolf and Lamb Steakhouse) in Brooklyn for decades. That's proof right there!! :-) :-)
I hope the steakhouse serves lamb and not wolf nor any lamb that has been torn up by a wolf. Both would be forbidden. Whenever I go to Hamburgerim in Ramat Eshkol or Burgerim which was in Givat Shaul but still is in Maaleh Adumim or Talpiyot, Israel's versions of White Castle sliders, you can choose between beef, chicken, or lamb or a combination of all three when you get three 80gram burgers. That is right. Make Aliyah and go to our version of White Castle.....Mehadrin too.
EM: According to our sources, Ben David is likely already here in this Motzei Shmittah year. We have discussed with about a 40% probability who I think he might be. But in this world when there is still too many with hope in the rewards of Olam HaZeh, he cannot reveal himself or speak up without going back into a Shabak dungeon. It is lonely down there with the Yordei Duma all in solitary prison cells, and as the pasuk says, not even HaShem will hear you scream (or at least it is impossible to praise G-d from there.)
So the world has to drastically change. The power of the Erev Rav whose marching orders come from the EU and the US State Dept. has to disintegrate. Every Muslim attack on Europe and even in the United States diminishes the effectiveness of those marching orders as the domestic populations in Europe or the US continue to rebel against their own governments. Brexit was the first such rebellion. Well not really, Trump IS an equally high profile rebellion in the US. And after a catastrophic attack like the ones in Nice or Munich, Europeans slowly come to realize that their new mortal enemy has been our mortal enemy for almost 100 years. The hypocrites among them will never reach the right conclusion, but not everyone is a hypocrite especially to the point of dying. So a huge chunk of the citizen base in the EU will cease believing in the moral indignation of the EU against us, even if it is just to preserve their very lives. Not everyone in Europe is Amaleq who IS mesirat nefesh to destroy us. So when the bulk of Europeans seek their own self-preservation, it will become more and more difficult to come and divide Yerushalayim as a threat against us for rebelling against them. In this way the power of the Erev Rav ceases as Europe is ground into the dust by Islamic terror.
Then and only then can Meir or whoever he is speak up as the established order of Edom is in turmoil and in disintegration. I won't go further that this to predict the future. The surprises are usually the order of the day during this process. One nuclear bomb from Un son of Il, from North Korea for example, could shift events beyond anyone's capacity to predict. Who knows where the next shock will come from?
Yeshayahu 34 tells us the the time period of "recompense for the Cause of Tzion" is One year where it speaks of a year of Recompense specifically against Malkhut Edom. So IF The Year of Recompense began in Nice on the 9th of Tamuz, Erev Parshat Chukat in Chu"l (the anniversary of the burning of the 24 cartloads of Talmuds by St. Louis IXth of France and the breach of the outer wall of Yerushalayim by the Bavelim), then the Year of Recompense began then on the 9th of Tamuz. This would mean that during this year, the crash of Edom by various forces including Islamic terror, would reach a point where the Erev Rav's system of protecting us from Edom's attack would become meaningless and useless as Islamic terror gains an upper hand. And we are not even including all the surprise elements that could happen at a moment's notice as everything deteriorates (Il son of Un in N.K., nuclear weapons for Persia, the Collapse of Deutsche Bank, the collapse of the Yen, etc. etc. etc.). There is no real way to guess. But the explosive possibilities are all there.
ח כִּי יוֹם נָקָם, לַיהוָה--שְׁנַת שִׁלּוּמִים, לְרִיב צִיּוֹן. 34:8 For the LORD hath a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Tzion.
The Day of vengeance if this is the case would be on some nearby Hoshana Rabbah in either 5777 or 5778. And the year of recompense? Well it seems that it has already begun on the 9th of Tamuz 5776. The Navi says that it should last one year.
oops. He is Un son of Il. Sorry about that. I was thinking about how ill Kim Jong Un must be.
Interesting, because there are several lion and lamb businesses as well.
just one note for Nibiru watchers (I am not really one of them), the prophesy in Yechezkel 38, 39 for that fateful Hoshana Rabbah is that there will be showers of Avnei Elgavish (meteoric stones, stones that have crystalized (gavish) way up there). If Nibiru is going to miraculously show up, it will be for that fateful Hoshana Rabbah. The intense magnetic and gravitational properties of a dwarf star would lead to this type of meteoric shower. The Dwarf Star, I don't believe, exists in our solar system right now, but it could be miraculously moved here in an instant causing the meteoric stones accompanied by fire and hail that has been suspended since the time of the plague of hail in Mitzraim.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/07/27/la-area-residents-report-seeing-lights-streaking-across-sky/
Yes, that was Avnei Elgavish on a small scale in LA compared to what is coming soon.
Rav Nachman Kahana recently did a post on his understanding of the 70 years. His take is that Amaleq will be defeated 3 times within 70 years. The first full "defeat" was when the ten gilgulim of Haman's ten sons were hung on Hoshana Rabbah 5707 at Nuremberg. The 11th was HerMaN Goering who was either Haman himself or Haman's daughter who jumped off a roof after hitting her father in the face with a flower pot, thinking that she had successfully hit Mordechai whom she thought was leading the horse. Goering wore women's underwear underneath his uniform. The remaining ten convicted of the death penalty at Nuremberg were then marched to their death by hanging (by a soldier named Woods) during the night of Hoshana Rabbah 5707. The date 5707 (the fall of 1946) is encoded in the Book of Esther in the names of the ten sons of Haman who were actually hung on the gallows on the 15th of Adar after they had already been slain on the 14th of Adar in the City of Shushan. Three letters are reduced in size (Tav Shin Zayin), and a Vav is increased in size referring to the 6th Millennium since Adam's Sin. So they were finally hung a second time on Hoshana Rabbah 5707 ending the defeat of Amaleq during WW2. Amaleq was defeated a 2nd time when the Soviet Union collapsed 70 years after it had been founded (actually 71 years) when the Berlin Wall was torn down a month after Rosh HaShanah 5750 in the Fall of 1989. So according to Rav Kahana, the third time will also take place within either 70 or 71 years of the first total defeat on Hoshana Rabbah 5707 when the 10 Nazis were hung. So that takes us to either Hoshana Rabbah 5777 or Hoshana Rabbah 5778 since the hangings at Nuremberg were precisely on Hoshana Rabbah in 5707 whose exact year is encoded in the Book of Esther. I happen to think that both of these Hoshana Rabbah dates will be significant since they are the bookends of the original Hoshana Rabbah of Amaleq's final defeat in 5707. This is from Rav Nachman Kahana.
Reb Dov
Wolf and Lamb Steakhouse is Kosher.
http://wolfandlambsteakhouse.com/kosherinfo
A friend of mine who is a steak lover proclaimed it to serve the finest steak he had ever eaten.
Shabbat Shalom
Small corrections: 1. Obviously Haman's daughter jumped off a balcony (not a roof per se') from which she was watching the processional through Shushan. She thought the man leading the horse was Mordechai with her father on the horse, but it was her father leading Mordechai on the king's horse proclaiming, "כָּכָה יֵעָשֶׂה לָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר הַמֶּלֶךְ חָפֵץ בִּיקָרוֹ. Thus shall be done to the Man whom the king delights to honor!" When her father looked up as the flower pot hit him in his face, in shock she jumped off the balcony and committed suicide. This suicide is not in the text. It is part of our oral tradition that this happened and is hinted about in the text 6:12: וְהָמָן נִדְחַף אֶל-בֵּיתוֹ, אָבֵל וַחֲפוּי רֹאשׁ. And Haman was pushed to his house, in mourning (for his daughter) with his face covered (with dirt from the flower pot.)
2. The actual date of the October Bolshevik Revolution was in early November (November 7th?) of 1917. It is called the October Revolution because Russia at the time was still on the Julian calendar which in 1917 was thirteen days behind the Gregorian calendar. The Russian Church did not accept Pope Gregory's instantly adding ten days to the calendar in 1582, and as of 1917, the Julian calendar fell an additional three days behind the Gregorian calendar corresponding to one day every century with no February 29th in the 00 year of each century unless the century number is divisible by four, which is the rule of the Gregorian calendar as it was set up in 1582. So in 1600 there was a February 29th, but there was no February 29th in 1700, 1800, and 1900. So the November 7th revolution was really on October 25th, 1917 according to the Julian calendar. So in reality the Berlin Wall was torn down 72 years after the Bolshevik Revolution on November 9th, 1989 (Gregorian), not 71 years after that Revolution which installed Communism at the Head of the Russian soon to be Soviet Empire. The denial of the existence of G-d is a principle attribute of Amaleq in the world even if was a Jew by birth who in part established it (Marx along with Friedrich Engels). Marx was biologically a Jew, but Engels was not. And in every case, the Color Red (the color of the revolution) bespeaks of Edom not Ya'akov.
So Putin favors Trump over Hillary BECAUSE Trump has shown a willingness to weaken NATO by not supporting NATO in countries who do not financially do their part in the Alliance. Perhaps Putin sees another way to isolate Turkey since the only strategic connection to Europe between Turkey and Europe is through NATO?? So Putin releases all kinds of information that was gleaned through Hillary Clinton's bathroom server to embarrass her! It seems that Putin really wants Trump elected...as he strategizes how he can control his Naval spigot from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean Sea in Istanbul without having to seek permission from NATO! These are things to look out for.
Debka says there is no way of knowing who hacked the emails. You would have to hack the Russians in a short time frame in order to know that, and you can't do that. Probabaly Osbama did that leaking himself. Start discrediting Cliton in order to stay in power later, if the opportunity arrises. Just a theory, he knows the party and its servers, passwords, codes, after all, does he not? Perhaps the Marsians did it? Who controls the Russia did it narrative? Great way to discredit Trump, and distract from server problem in any case. Distract from intrinsic problem because of content of leak. Get the presstitutes to hackle Trump, he can't control his emotions, gets mad. He makes a joke. Next thing you know the narrative is that Trump works with Putin to undermine America's security by hacking. (LOL if it wasn't so sad/bad)
Martians?? Has Putin annexed parts of "the Red planet?"
I very much doubt that Trump wants to relinquish any of America's national security to the Russians. If the Russians hacked the server, which is most likely, Trump had nothing to do with that. But the Russians do favor Trump in this election. Putin actually despises Hillary Clinton for claiming that his 2012 vote to replace Dimitry Medvedev as President of Russia was rigged.....even if that is true which is likely the case!! Shabbat Shalom.
Dov Bear,
Can you please discuss Rabbi Berland? What is your hashkafa? I have no idea if something did or didn't happen. How are we supposed to view the situation? Now they say there is a recording where he admits guilt.
Sadly, even big people can slip. I have no idea what this means for Geulah. There are ppl who say no way did he do anything. How do they know? Because he is a big tzaddik? Probably no one really knows.
Mark
Mark: Because we really don't know either way, how can I or anyone else prove or claim Rav Berland is guilty on any blog or in any forum? Rav Shmuel Eliyahu Shlit"a has seen the evidence and seems to think that Rav Berland belongs in jail. Yet, others amongst our Gedolim disagree. They tell us that Rav Berland is suffering from false accusations from the Erev Rav as suffering upon himself so that Klal Yisrael in general does not have to suffer from false accusations leveled at us by the Umot HaOlam. So until the evidence is presented and until we have access to the quality of this evidence, it is best to zip one's mouth and to not express an opinion either way except to assume innocence until any case has been proven without reasonable doubts against him. So on this blog we have assumed his innocence until he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Edom in head'em out, rawhide
Rabbi Eliezer Berland is responsible for bringing thousands of Jews in teshuva, his Yeshiva Shuvu Banim is a success, his followers are loyal and attentive, he was a teacher of great rabbis Shalom Arush and Ofer Erez, that their names be blessed, then we are dealing with a higher rating of tzaddik here.
Tzaddikim as Baal Shem Tov and Rabbi Nachman of Breslev also had opposition and passed by controversy, all the great rabbis who are working kiruv go through it, but Rabbi Eliezer Berland is going through this humiliation to appease the harsh judgments of Klal Yisrael, he he took upon himself the sins of the people as atonement. No more backbiting, no lashon hara and chutzpa, pray for Rabbi welfare, Mashiach ben Yosef can not die, it needs to continue its kiruv, we can not lose your words of Torah that are filled with sod and mussar, we can not lose this tzadik.
It's sickening to see people giving R Berland get a free pass, without waiting for the results of the investigation or studying the accusations. This sounds like cult behavior.
I see people not only claiming with full confidence that he's innocent, rather going so far as claiming things such as "but Rabbi Eliezer Berland is going through this humiliation to appease the harsh judgments of Klal Yisrael, he he took upon himself the sins of the people as atonement", and associating him with Mashiach.
This is crazy! What if he really is just a criminal, leading a cult following? Why not allow the evidence to speak for itself?
Maybe he's innocent and a truly great tzaddik (but, maybe not!). We've seen this situation before. Let it play out, then move on to conclusions.
I'm not for alot of what I see in the courts, government, leadership, etc., but, to automatically assume that all investigations against orthodox leadership are evil and not objective or factual is crazy.
This is a sad sad situation, with so many people involved both pro and con. Those who defend him might be in store for a crisis of faith. An interesting post to read: Torah Codes are Very Tricky … How could this be a giant farce, considering the following:
Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, Chief Rabbi of Tzfat, said:
Question: People have turned to me with the request to help save Rabbi Berland from jail. Is doing so part of the mitzvah of freeing Jewish prisoners?
Answer: G-d forbid. Tens of testimonies exist from women who were abused by Rabbi Berland. He has admitted to his closest followers that he committed the most grievous sins of forbidden relations (all his confessions are recorded).
His close followers and family couldn't believe what they were seeing because of excuses that he had [hitherto] made for himself. When they understood that he is a sinner, they tried protecting him from sin, but he fled and continued to sin. Therefore there is no choice but to put him in jail. There, he won't be able to sin.
Many who still follow him know of his severe sins, but think that if they protect him, they will prevent a desecration of G-d's name. In my opinion, they err in this. The real desecration comes from the Rabbi committing the most grievous of sins while wearing Tefillin. This is a desecration of G-d's name and this is what is delaying the Redemption.
Does anyone chv”s mistrust Rabbi Eliyahu Shlit”a?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/215456
Ok I have posted the last three comments on this subject. Until evidence is presented in a court of law, I would prefer that we not discuss this anymore until after the trial. Any further discussion is speculation until the Decision.
I do want to post one last link on the subject of Rav Berland, only because this link had a profound effect on me and others who read it when it was first published near the beginning of June. In short, there seems to be a lot a stake here, .... a whole lot.
I am linking to it without further comment. Until the trial is complete, we won't know which way is up or down in this case. So the subject on it will be closed until a decision is rendered. The Three Men had an Agreement in order to bring Mashiach without incredible suffering. Is this true? Again, the subject at this point in time is closed. I posted the above link because it speaks well of the defendant in this case. One is permitted to do that. Now the evidence and eye-witnesses will be presented, and G-d willing justice will prevail....The End.
if rav berland is indeed divinely protected, then he should just turn himself in. truth ALWAYS prevails.
I agree 100% Dov. Once you read that article, everything changes. I am seriously thinking of re-blogging that article, to silence all the critics who have come out of the woodwork. So thanks for the reminder.
Arutz Sheva has reported that the BlackLivesMatter movement have sent a delegation to Israel.
They have an anti-Zionist agenda.
The delegation participated in a border fence protest and I quote " highlighted the movement’s international goals, expressing its opposition to what it described as the “genocide” of Palestinian Arabs at the hands of “Zionist vigilantes”, as well as capitalism, and the “occupation” of Palestine."
This backs up those who wrote of this movement having backing from Iranian sources.
If it was truly so concerned with the lives of African-Americans, it would confine it's activities to protesting the undoubted brutality and itchy trigger fingers metered out by some American Police on some African Americans.
But instead it seeks to spread what I can only call anti-Semitic hate.
Whilst Israel does have a problem with some Police and how they act towards some people of Ethiopian heritage, this is something that we as Jews must deal with internally.
Rav Dov, I have a question.Why rav Shimon Kessin in his last lecture said that Mashiach would come from much lower place? he won't be a talmid chacham? Thank you. Leah
Humble Truth, it seems he did just that. He returned to Israel on the 12th of Tamuz to "go on trial" of his own volition...
Wow, I just noticed this one!!
Remember that on the 17th of Tamuz, the Shabbat before the Democratic (Jackass logo) Convention, the parshat Shavua here in Israel was Pinchus, but the Parshah in Chu"l (Outside the Land) was Balak, The Parshah of Bliaam and his jackass. So Bilaam's jackass, Hillary Clinton, was nominated on her parshat shavua in the Torah at the Democratic Convention, whose logo IS Bilaam's jackass!
Leah: I will have to listen to Rav Kessin's video on Wednesday. no time this evening. Camping with my son tomorrow and tomorrow night. I will get back to you at that time.
I think everyone should read this: the Birth of Moshiach. It really made sense.
The next "barrier" of descent of Edom should start on Rosh Chodesh Av. All eyes turn to Rio.....for Aaron Copland's "Ode or is it Hod? for the Common Man". They Olympic Committee calls it "Fanfare for the Common Man.", but way back when it was Ode or Hod. Now is the time to place gold, silver, and copper medallions around the necks of some common folks, well some pretty athletic common folks. I wonder if the Olympic Committee thought about using that same medal/metal content to build a Temple to the Creator of the Universe?? to show the world To Whom is Gedulah, Gevurah, Tiffereth, Netzach, and Hod?? (First Chronicles 29:11) and for What do we accept a raised up offering of gold, silver, and copper? (Shemot 25:3). I jest, but it just goes to show that Edom is more Greek than Jewish.
I have received several more comments on the Rav Berland affair and trial on both sides of the issues. As mentioned above, I am now trying to avoid discussion about this until the trial is over.
So terrible.
Tonight two hit and runs in Israel, one in Haifa and one in the Negev.
Two women killed in Haifa...a truck speeding through a red light straight into their car.
From the footage online it looked as if the truck did not then stop afterwards, but the driver must have known he has smashed into a car.
Arutz Sheva has not reported them as terrorist attacks, but could this be a new escalation by the Arabs?
Under the radar: Obama and the UN take over of Police? Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami..
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/un-backs-secret-obama-takeover-of-police/
Recommendation: NASA and Orion AND A Stunning Statement by NASA
Is it true? What a discovery!
Yermiah 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer has ended, and we are not saved.
Chodesh tov. Yes, we said Half Hallel this morning....for when we enter the month of Av, Edom will go down in Joy! All eyes turn to Rio and their big Avodah Zarah statue welcoming all those wandering neo-idolaters to Rio....including Pele who wants to light the Olympic flame at the Games whose fire of course comes from all those "gods" on Mt. Olympus.
And the Summer has NOT ended. I would have waited at least until after Tisha B'Av to post that comment. You jumped the gun....as they say at the Olympics.
Dov, Who do you think is the gilgul of Korach? (Not Shabbos for me yet. Will pick this up moetze Shabbos.)
Shabbat shalom.
This waiting and waiting is very difficult. Especially as it seems everything is status quo. Nothing happened on Rosh Chodesh Av. None of the bloggers have much to say at this point.
I fear again we are looking at another fast day on 10 Av This year. :(
Of course anything can happen at any moment.
Salvation of Hashem can happen in the blink of an eye.
Mark
Hello Reb Dov, have you received a question that I have asked and are you very busy lately? (I'm assuming you are very busy these days) and have not had time to answer questions.
I hope all is well by you and your family.
The 28 September 2016 appears to be a turning point in history when the positive energy floods the earth, that meaning the presence of Shekhinah is significant, thus triggering fundamental events towards Geulah.
The Tisha b'Av 5776 becomes of huge importance, the birth of Mashiach, i.e. He is empowered to continues more significant works in the messy world. There are two years left until 5778 when Mashiach is seen as being revealed and crowned (see above comments).
Yet the Rosh Hashanah 5777 (3-4 October 2016) will certainly bring some surprising/ miraculous events, as the previous Rosh Hashanah 5776 did on 13 September 2015, the beginning of Arab terror in Yisrael.
Rav Dov let the comments being published even before Tisha b'Av 5776. There are only a couple of days left. Let the energy flow.
I answered Leah in private.
I would have a lot to say, but I have been working very hard lately, and probably will continue to do so right up until Rosh haShanah. Here's something I just listened to that you might enjoy...
Living On and Off the Land (of Israel)
Just to point this out, we will be feasting (wine and meat) this Tisha B”Av; and we did so last year (Saturday, July 25) too. This is fulfillment of a prophecy (almost).
Comments anyone?
It's really pointless to contemplate the idea that Rav Berland is Mashiach or is somehow connected to him. Mashiach is far above the mess Rav Berland got into. This is besides the idea that Mashiach is someone we won't believe before being known.
But other issues become stringent nowadays, the fact that USA is threatening Yisrael for the first time with harsh consequences if that Arab village is demolished. Edom beemet is becoming the enemy of H", thus attracting its demise. Mashiach born on Tisha B'Av means also the strengthening of Yisrael around the idea of redemption Geulah for those being conscious about soul salvation. We witness events happening with incredible speed. Who would believe the current turmoil in Turkey happening now? The next big conflict is moving to the Baltic Sea, and Libya that will flood Western Europe with Yishmael.
Do we expect elections in US? Yes, but the current man in power will fulfill his destiny to destroy the very country that trusted him. Currently USA is arming Lebanon.
This year appears to be the starting time of incredible conflicts and huge natural disasters. The earth displays more and more sinking holes all around the world for the first time in the known history. The very ground we live on becomes unstable. This is the manmade disaster.
We fast and pray on Tisha B'Av.
Although this has a xtian view I think it is important to know all that is going on in Turkey along with Japan since the coup was put down.
http://shoebat.com/2016/08/05/in-muslim-turkey-they-are-beating-people-forcing-them-to-take-the-mark-of-the-beast/
YS
Meshech and Tuval (European and Siberian flanks of the Russian Empire), Togarmah (Turkey), and Persia....nice.
Neshama, the Rebbe Moharosh (4th Lubavitcher Rebbe) said on 9 B'Av on Shabbos - "keivan shenidche, sheyidache!"
Also, the Rebbe emphasised that in our generation the fasting on 9 BAv and the 9 days are more about longing for the redmeption and Temple then aveilus. That's why we learn hilchos beis habechira, etc.
This blog is a beautiful form of Hakhel and a part of the redmeption. Don't forget to be besimcha!
As chazal say that as Av comes in we memaet (in all the negative things) through simcha!
Thank you Ronnie, since moving to Eretz HaKodesh this is more what my heart and head feels when we approach the Nine Days – "longing for the redmeption and Temple then aveilus”. These are the days we are definitely in.
Agree with last two commenters, Ronnie and Neshama.
Also, in regard to Moshiach ben Yosef - it most likely is not a person, as it does not have to be. The wars waged will be by the Jews of the Jewish nation. Moshiach Ben Dovid is a different story; he must be a direct descendant of the Dovid Hamelech and will definitely be Dovid Hamelech's descendant.
I did manage a post after all: Yearning for the Land.
It helps when a combination of elements comes together to express one's sentiments. And I really want to visit Alon and Rachel Zimmerman's farm and get to know a cow or several (or even milk them)! ;)
To view CDG's post, click on Home on the linked page.
The faux, highly manipulated US Stock market closed today at an all time faux high of 18,613. Yes, that was 18 followed by 613. Yes, this is the stock market that, since 2008, goes down on good economic news and goes up 200 points on rotten economic news. So whatever this fossil of American capitalism, which existed until 2008, does is an indication of absolutely nothing except what the banksters want it to be. The Free Market that existed and was vibrant until 2008 no longer exists, but the numbers do.
That is very interesting Dov. Artificial $ they are dealing in. Your third sentence influences me to think of the element during this time: What is truth is on the bottom and what is a lie is on the top.
What do you think?
Maurice speaking : Hi everybody, always a pleasure to read the comments on this blog !.
I would like to reply to Anonymous, regarding Mashiah Ben Yossef, for I believe his statement needs to be completed, in a friendy intention.
The Vilna Gaon states that there are 3 levels of MBY, acting all along of our history (and in particular since the beginning of the footsteps of Mashiah, I believe in year 5550) :
1 The MBY from shamayim : it is an Angel, the one called Matat..., who is the ministry on Interior in the spiritual world, a huge force from above,
2 The MBY of the generation : he is the Tsaddik of the generation, taking upon him the missions devoted to MBY in each generation (gatheing of the exiled, suffering for Am Israel, etc...).
For example the GRA states that he was the MBY of his generation.
I am not saying that today the MBY of our generation is Rav X or Rav Y.
Honestly I do not know and it's something 100%, normal since MBY comes from Yossef Hatsadik, who is hidden (just remember his own brothers do not recognize Yossef when they go down in Mitsraïm).
But for sure, there is a man, living today, and he is a real tsadik, and he is the MBY of the generation.
3 A spark of MBY is inside each of us who works for the ingathering of the exiled, which means that everyone who take upon himself to commit in the different missions devoted to MBY is really associated to MBY.
This 3rd aspect of MBY is probably, as states Anonymous, a national aspect, when writing "The wars waged will be by the Jews of the Jewish nation", I agree with that.
I would even go further (but I may be mistaken) and add that not only the Jewish people, but also the Goyim that join us in that war are associated to this aspect of MBY (remember that Qoresh who helped rebuild the nation of Israel in his time was considered as MBY, while he was not jewish).
Shabbat shalom and many good news for Am Ysrael
Thank you Maurice and Ronnie and Neshama for your recent comments.
Leah: Yes, in this past Shmittah cycle more than any Shmittah cycle for the last 240 years (as long as there has been a United States of America), Evil is good, and Good is evil. There is no bastion right now for human decency on the planet except for Jews in Eretz Yisrael doing chessed one for they other. In monetary affairs there were three ways to make money in this past Shmittah cycle since the Financial Collapse of 2008:
1. If you had money from wealth accumulated before 2008 and if you invested well, you had money. This would apply for good, decent people and evil people.
2. If you sought investment money from people who were already wealthy before the end of 2008 and who retained their wealth through that Crisis, you could invest and prosper. This would apply for both good, decent people and evil people.
3. If you needed to borrow money from what was once traditional sources like a bank and if you sought favorable regulatory climate to succeed in business, you had to have an "in" with some very evil people who now control the path to prosperity since 2008. The only people who succeeded by so called traditional means to become wealthy, succeeded primarily on their poor midot which the evil people who now control the system find admirable.
Yes, I believe the situation in the world is now that dire. It is truly sickening. The Stock market is a joke. It does not reflect the true health of corporations who offer stocks. It goes up with massive printing of money or digitization of massive increase in the money supply and flooding the market with liquidity. The banks then lend money to investors whose first inclination is to put the stash of cash or digitized money into the stock market basically guaranteeing that the market will not fall because of market forces in the past that would cause the Market to fall precipitously. So with dismal economic news, the Market shoots through the roof because a poor economy guarantees a flow of money into those investment houses who only invest in the stock market. It is a sight to behold, and it is pure Sheker. And Pure Sheker that is perpetuated for over seven years becomes a playground for a growing number of unsavory, evil people who now control this cockamamie system.
Again the American stock market before 2008 was for all intents and purposes a free market which reflected both the prosperity of the country as a whole and the prosperity of the various companies offering stock in the market. This simply is no longer the case, and the path to prosperity through what was once traditional channels is now controlled by a growing number of unsavory and evil people.
Again this excludes private individuals who were already wealthy before the 2008 collapse and those who borrowed money from such people. These investors and investments are successful in spite of the generally evil climate that has taken over American business prosperity in general.
Shabbat Shalom and have a spiritually productive Fast on the 10th of Av. Eat the Third Shabbat meal early, and finish it before sunset. Wear your leather shoes until immediately after Borchu at Ma'ariv. Then remove remove them.
After Ma'ariv Saturday night:
1. No eating and drinking for 24 1/2 hours
2. No anointing with oils or fragrant salves.
3. Wear non-leather shoes
4. No washing even one's hands and face for comfort. Wash hands for hygiene purposes only which means nail water in the morning to only wash to the first knuckle (unless you are dirty from using the restroom, of course).
5. No learning Torah except for those portions of Talmud or Tanakh that relate to the Churban of the First or Second Jewish Commonwealth and their Temples.
6. No Shalom Aleichem or Greetings which involve a blessing. Even try not to say Hello. Just nod when you see people. (Now some say this only applies until Midday on the day of the fast. Others say that this applies for the entire fast.) When answering the phone, well ask a Rav.
7. Sit on low stool until Midday Sunday.
8. Put on Tallit and Tefillin at Mincha time after Midday of course. At that time say Bracha (that HaShem provides all of my needs) and (that HaShem crowns us with Tiffarah (Charisma)). These brachot were excluded during Shacharit, but should be said before Mincha.
9. No relations between Man and wife
B"H
Building on Maurice's summary of MBY:
The process of redemption by MBY parallels the redemption Beitah, while the miraculous appearance of MBD ushering the true and complete redemption parallels Achishena.
That's how the Mitteler Rebbe explains Beitah Achishena that at a certain time of Beitah, Achishena takes over, and thse correspond to the many parallels in the machlokes of R' Yehoshua and R' Eliezer regarding the manner of the redemption.
We are certainly in the Beitah process of redemption since 5750-5751, waiting for the sudden and miraculous aspect of MBD and Geulah Achishena which can and should take any moment now.
In the meantime, in the process of MBY as we gather and unite ourselves and hence our individual sparks of MBY (and Yechida soul level in general), we hasten the point of critical mass.
This is what the inner meaning of Hakhel - which is a mitzva performed on Motzei Shviis - the aspect of the 8th. Learn Kabbalah & Chassidus non stop and unite with many more Jews to build the vessel of the redemption.
Good Shabbos, Moshiach Now!
Actually it didn't start in 2008. The Stock market started this trend during the Clinton years. I remember it well.
Thank you for the informative 9th/10th of Av prohibitive aspects, Dov. Also, the element of MBY from all who commented.
This year, in particular, I feel more of the redemptive process forming. Yes, of course, each year has had it's own characteristic of the geulah's process, yet this year, for me, seems like we have moved in huge strides and very fast from a multitude of countries and directions.
I pray for klal Yisroel to be safe as we move through this transition.
Shabbat shlaom and a meaningful fast with awareness and clarity
The geulah will be "Achishena" with chesed and rachamim
Sicha of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Parshas Naso 5747 (free translation)
The geulah itself is in a manner of wealth, regarding the negation of the aspects of "chevlei Moshiach", since the Mitteler Rebbe explained that we have already fulfilled the obligaion of "chevlei Moshiach" by way of all the oppression and pogroms, etc. How much more so after all the matters that took place in the generations after this, up to our generation, and therefore the geulah must be with Chesed and Rachamim (kindess and mercy), as was said, in a way of wealth. This also applies to the time of the geulah -- not only in a way of "achishena", but "achishena" within "achishena" itself. That is to say, that also the "achishena" will be in a way of wealth.
To am yisrael: My torah intuition is telling me that Hashem has decided to hide Nibiru in the month of Av because the Av mood is more than enough. BH notice also that not any national/Jewish tragedy has happened at least in the last two years during the Nine days so far I can remember (right?). Meaning we have possibly finished paying our dues. Time for the Exodus! Sarah
I came across the following paragraph in the holy sefer Noam Elimelech (Parashat Kedoshim). Very pertinent to the imminent Geulah, as discussed on this blog.
כתוב בספרים שלעתיד כשיבא משיח צדקנו יקבץ את העם המפוזרים. והצדיקים יהיו סמוכים אצלו תמיד. ואותם אנשים שהתנהגו בזה העולם בגלות כשורה אך לא היה להם שכל של אמת לעבוד את הבורא ברוך הוא בכל האופן והיו אוהבי ממון רק ששמרו עצמם מן החטא לפי שכלם, אז משיח מביא אותם אל הים אוקייאנוס ופותח להם האוצרות הגנוזים שם. ומלא שם אבנים טובות וכסף וזהב הרבה מאד ונוטלין משם כל חפצם והולכים לביתם ברב בצע כסף והון רב. וכשמשיח פורח לגן עדן בקדושתו הגדולה אז הצדיקים שבדור פורחים אחריו לגן עדן בכח קדושתן ופרישותן הגדולה. ואותם אנשים שקבלו טובתם ורצונם באוצרות הזהב כשרואים הגדולה הזאת הם רוצים גם כן להעשות כן ולפרוח ביניהם ואינם יכולין מחמת כובד משאם גשמיותם שדבקו עצמם בכסף וזהב.
Dan G 8/15/2016 3:56 PM
can you plz translate that to ENGlish ?
thx
I’ll try my best.
When Moshiach comes to ingather the exiles, the righteous will have no problem following him. But those that on one hand conducted themselves correctly by not sinning, according to their understanding, but weren’t wise enough to serve Hashem in all their ways, rather were fond of money and possessions – Moshiach will bring them to the ocean, and will open for them all the vast treasures of gems, gold & silver that are buried there. They take as much as they want and return home with great riches. Then, when Moshiach in his great holiness flies up to heaven, the righteous of the generation fly up after him in the power of their own holiness and great continence. And those that received their favor and wishes in the golden treasures, when they see this grandeur, attempt to fly up among them. But they can’t, because of the sheer weight of their materialism, because they bound themselves to gold and silver.
Thank you Dan G.
Dan G: Very wise. This scenario of following Mashiach at the end of his mission is part of the complition of the mission of the generation of Mashiach as well.
As we talk more and more about Mashiach's coming, as the major event of geulah, I want to bring into attention one issue that is less spoken about, the idea of poligamy during messianic era and beyond. Will Mashiach revive poligamy among Am Yisrael, thus being in tune with Torah which doesn't forbid it, and the practices of patriarchs? We know that poligamy was stopped among Ashkenazim about a thousand years ago by Rav Gershom, mainly in order to avoid the killings of Jews by the Christians. After all how Am Yisrael could become very numerous without polygamy? Rav Dov, please write a comment about the issue. Thanks!
As we know from Parshat Ki Teitzei (Deut 21:15) there is a real downside to polygamy. There is often, very often, one wife that is loved more than the other wives. With many wives, some women adjust to being second best while others don't, but with two wives, do we really need to point to the numerous times in the Torah and Tanakh where we see often bitter rivalries develop? Not all Jewish women are at the level of Leah and Rachel or Chana and Peninah to cope admirably with being the less loved wife. So I don't know.... a circumspect answer with my wife looking over my shoulder.
Dan: Yes, Rav Pinchas Winston interestingly enough has taken that same medrash and has divided World Jewry into North American Jews who basically have stayed in America and Canada for the gashmiyut and Jews who make Aliyah who most assuredly did NOT come here for the gashmiyut. I would add to that Australian Jews and another other Jew who has to cross an "ocean" to get here after Mashiach comes. I believe that is why the medrash brings up the issue of taking Jews from abroad to the ocean to find treasure. Well how about Jews in Antwerp you may ask? They won't have to cross an ocean to get here. I guess they have already found their diamonds.
Yoni: Rav Gershon himself was married to two women and they made his life miserable. They hated each other and he, therefore, realized having two women at one time is wrong. Thankfully, we do not have this situation today, nor should it ever come back. Even our Patriarchs had problems because they had more than one wife at a time. Common sense proves that.
H' created the first man, Adam, and gave him one wife, Chava. That tells us something.
It is true that having two or more wives may not work, but is equally valid that having just one wife may not work either.
The point I want to make here is that H,' in the Torah, had a reason for not forbidding the men having more wives. As Torah is eternal the possibility of poligamy coming back is mamash real.
Beside that we discussed the issue in connection to the world to come, olam haba, that differs substantially compared to olam haze. In the new world the evil will be eliminated and a new humanity is establised on other foundations. As such the major issue that can arise in a poligamous family, namely gelosy, may not occur. I think I have a strong point of debate here.
Starting the day before Tisha B'Av Louisiana has been devastated by Water, and starting around the 17th of Tamuz California has been devastated by Fire.
And starting on Tisha B'Av itself the black ghettos in Milwaukee, Wisconsin have been devastated by riotous lawlessness and by hatred for white cops in particular and white people in general. It is worse that it was in Ferguson two years ago. The Death of Western Man's Sheker HaChein is now complete.
Also starting on Tisha B'Av there have been two major stabbing attacks on trains in Europe. On Tisha B'Av itself, 6 people were severely stabbed on a train in Switzerland. The "terrorist" who supposedly is not a migrant from the Middle East also set the train car on fire in the Swiss attack. And yesterday, three days after the Swiss attack, two people were stabbed on another train in Austria.
I am just noting all this now for reference in the future as the situation devolves.
I agree one man went to Shul notices the unattached women who were all alone in the world
They might have eventually found husbands but wasn't likely
He married them all and it worked out well, I belief it was in England a mitzvah
Yoni:
There are more examples in the Tanach that provide ample witness to the fact more than one wife causes many problems, than are examples that advocate for polygamy. I would have to argue, if jealousy is obliterated in the future why shouldn't a woman have more than one husband? If fantasies of polygamy are suddenly
able to be fulfilled due to our Creator's great magnanimity, then surely He will also allow Polyandry. Because for some, one is never enough and desire is fueled by fantasies rather than practicality, harmony and shalom bayit.
Yoni: It seems you would like to have a lot of women. Cannot agree an iota with you re this subject. Olam Habah will be a world of perfection and good and don't think this plays into it.
Anonymous at 11:03 PM,
I am afraid you have it all wrong. Polyandry was NEVER permitted in the Torah, in fact it is one of the major sins, mentioned in the 10 Commandments as well as in the sins that cause kareth, namely adultery, which means a married woman having another man. More than one wife, however, as Yoni points out, was never forbidden in the Torah, only derabbanan, and that only recently - 1000 years - and that cherem has in fact expired a while ago.
What nobody seems to mention is the severe shidduch crisis currently sweeping the Jewish world, where you have countless good and beautiful Jewish women who cannot find husbands because of the severe imbalance between men and women, with a lot more women than men. This leads to terrible suffering among women, and unfortunately, particularly in Israel, has led to very dysfunctional patterns. For instance it is becoming a fashion among older single RELIGIOUS women to decide to have children on their own, through IVF. This is a terrible tragedy that was NOT condoned by the Torah. It is unthinkable that children should be born in such an unhealthy and deficient environment, it would be so much better for these deprived women to be married to a man who already has another wife, yet who is willing and capable of taking care of and loving more than one woman. This is very much needed today.
I believe that Hashem is very much against this new fashion introduced in the Jewish world with the permission of rabbis. A proof of that is one famous and terrible tragedy that happened in the last couple of months in Israel, which every Jew in the world heard of( I won't mention which one, in order not to embarrass the family) and which to me proved that Hashem is very unhappy with this new state of affairs, and made it clear for those who wish to open their eyes, if they are honest with themselves).
***
I am in a place in Chul right now where multiple families from Dubai and other arab countries are visiting. It is so simple, and common, to see arab men followed by their two or more wives. They don't seem unhappy at all.
As I saw that, just this afternoon I started saying Tehillim with this specific issue in mind ... and lo and behold this forum decided to broach the issue. It is high time. Yes, the Cherem is supposed to end with the coming of Mashiach. We NEED polygamy - but of course NOT polyandry - for the health and sake of Am Yisrael.
My take on the matter.
Dov,
Funny: I just noticed the title of this blog of yours. I thought it was Barbarians at the gate, now I see it says 'Bavarians'... guess where I am? !n BAVARIA! Isn't it strange? Is there a Hashgachah Pratit or not? I came to AUSTRIA for a family Bar Mitzvah. The Toldot Aharon, from Meah Shearim, was also here, and had a Tisch at the end of the Seudah. His wife, a real Tsaddikah, was present, she has that beautiful Yerushalayim vibe, an amazing happy and holy smile( she is the mother of 17 children!!!). I told her, please give me a Brachah: all I want in life is to be in Eretz Yisrael, and I am always forced to go to Chutz Laaretz to be with my family, and it kills me. You want to hear what amazing thing she said? She said: if you really believe in Hashem, you should know that every person has a Shelichut. Hashem knows what He is doing. If He wants you to be in Chul right now, that means that it is what you have to do. Maybe when you stop fighting that, and accept that Hashem knows best, and accept His will, then maybe He will make sure your family follows you in Eretz Yisrael. I had to do some painful soul searching, and realized that of course she is right. So I accepted my predicament, understood that my attachment to being in Eretz Yisrael is MY will against Hashem's will, ego in essence. Then this thing happened this afternoon here in Austria, with saying Tehillim at the shore of a lake in the Alps, with masses of Arabs there.... then coming to Bavaria on the way back to the US.... then THIS FORUM, on a blog with the name BAVARIANS at the gate, about this essential issue; Hashem truly is in control, and this message I just relayed is clearly from Him. We need to tackle the issue of the ´Cherem of Rabbi Gershon: it is outdated, and NOT for our era any more. Am Yisrael needs to reinstate the family the way it was in Biblical times, at least PERMITTING the option of more than one wife in certain cases,( not everybody, of course, is made for that).
Amaleq is very strong in Bavaria. It is where Hitler found his base of support originally when he got started. There is a reason for this in the Gemorrah in Megillah. 300 Princes in Germany of Edom and 365 in the Roman Church (as principle saints of the Roman Catholic Church.) The total is 665 princes. Now, this is interesting because whatever they, Xtianity, say that is true is not new, but there is a 666th prince in the Oesterreich (Austria), the Eastern Kingdom in comparison to Southeastern Germany or Bavaria. But he only comes to power in a united political alliance between Germany and the Roman Catholic Church. As long as Austria was part of the Hungarian Empire, he, Amaleq, never came to power, but when Germany united with the Pope, the 666th prince came out of the Austrian Kingdom and came to power over the 3rd Reich.
The same is true today, but today Austria is an independent country. So the United Reich between Germany and the Vatican is in Brussels not in Berlin as the capital of the EU. Neither Junker nor Martin Shulz are from Bavaria or its eastern extension into Austria. I am not claiming that either of them is individually like Hitler, but the same union between Germany and the Vatican is there along with a union with Austria.
I should have named the post The Barbarians are at the Gates Bavaria of Edom since it is in Bavaria that Amaleq is strongest in Europe (again with that very specific political union between Germany, the Roman Church, and Austria).
We do understand now that the issue of polygamy is part of geulah and acharit hayamim. The single wife custom is a Christian norm that is not connected to Judaism. As long as Jews follow the Christian rules, we are punished by H'.
The revival of polygamy among Am Yisrael is only a matter of time, as Judaism is entranched in rationality. We see the polygamous societies multiplying rapidly whereas other societies are in decline. Christianity is the best example of what are the consequances of single wife communities that are basically dying.
H', as male, is practically in partenership with all the females of the world, for they are those continuing his work of multiplying of species. We see here that the issue of polygamy isn't a simple matter, but a divine way of keeping H''s plan for humanity and universe.
The single and suffering women of Am Yisrael should approach their married friends and tell them: Will you consider me to be part of your family by becoming wife of your husband as well?
The organisations, legislative bodies, females associations, Knesseth, etc., should discuss the matter in the light of Torah, and make polygamy legal in Yisrael. If the state tolerates polygamy amoung Beduins, why not bring the subject into the open and make legal the ancient way of life of the Jewish people? H' will bless even more the man with his wives and their 88 children.
DS:
When Sarah gave Hagar to Avraham it was out of a lack of emunah! We know the fruit of this outcome. The marriage of Yaakov to Rachel and Leah was also not one of shalom bayit.The wives suffered and the children of the maidservants suffered. We learn from the Torah by what is said and what is not explicitly said. It is yet to be seen what will be in the future when mashiach arrives. I do not know many women who having married and fallen in deep love and commitment with a man who would happily share a husband. This would be very painful. Is G-d going to turn us into robots when mashiach comes so men can fulfill all their base desires? And do not assume that all is wonderful in Arab marriages. G-d made women monogamous - to cling to one man. Polygamy only causes division, pain and alienation for women AND the children of the first wife. Is G-d going to reverse all the decrees of our holy Sages?
DS - usually agree on most everything with you but not on the issue of polygamy. Never even heard of that other word poly? (G-D forbid woman with more than one husband). For someone on this blog to even bring such a thing up is strange.
In regard to polygamy, it is a halacha in the Ashk. world to have only one wife and should remain so, because it is civilized and makes sense in every way; even Adam was given one wife! As far as the shidduch problem is ocncerned, there are very many men in the religious communities who are not married and keep on dating, always looking for more attractive women. In the meantime, time goes by and people do age. There are women who find problems with the men, so it is not a matter of there are not enough men for the womenb, it's just a different world today where the Jewish religious communities are effected by the 'modern' thinking world just like the goyim. It is a sad situation for everyone but that does not give anyone the right to change Jewish laws, mesorah, customs of more than a thousand years. To compare, c'v, Yisrael to the aravin and their ways is a chilul H'. Also, for women in religious communities who go and have children by the iVF or whatever is just wrong! That is a selfish act. Our Sages say having children is a blessing and a Torah commandment, but it is the 'selfishness' of humanity that pushes them to have children. May the shidduch problem be solved and all Jewish couples be blessed with many children, but making children without husbands is the most selfish thing there is.
I was thinking today how much effort I must extend to make my one wife happy. I can't even begin to fathom if I would be able to sleep at night trying to make two or more wives happy. Add to that the rivalries between two wives and the need to give a yerushah to all the children of all the wives, and I may end up insane with worry and, can I say, broke? Keep in mind, that one has to make the wives happy and provide for them too.
I just look at Yaakov Avinu and Leah and Rachel, and these three were the very, very best that humanity could possibly produce. Look at the sadness and the heartache of Leah. Look at how she cried because she knew that she was not the most loved wife, and it was only because she gave birth to 6 children out of 12 sons + Dina that she had solace. Now if this story did not repeat itself, we could call it a unique situation. But it does repeat in so many subtle ways in Tanakh. Peninah and Chana. Peninah berated Chana. Then when Chana started to have children (Starting with Shmuel HaNavi), Peninah's children started to die! Also remember Yiftach, the Judge? His mother was a concubine. Look how his brothers treated him. Look at the pain and suffering as a result. Even David HaMelekh who was the best of husbands had to deal with rivalries between his 18 wives. And Shlomo? He simply had too many....way, way too many. I don't think that there is even one really positive story in Tanakh about a man with more than one wife having his Shalom Bayit improved because of it. Yet, as pointed out, The Torah permits a man to marry up to 18 wives. Very perplexing.
Yet, it should be pointed out that the Gezeirah of Rabbeinu Gershom was for 1000 years. Well the gezeirah has either just expired, or we are within 20 years of that decree expiring. So you know whom better come quickly.
Thanks Reb Dov for your comment; I had a good laugh about the subject of having more than one wife. We could all use a good laugh. That subject about having more than one wife is a 'joke' for a justified laugh.
Torah is for all times but it gives the history of the world; it starts with Breishis and the history of our ancestors; but just as we do not dress the same and now live in a modern evolved world, we know that common sense dictates that there is only one wife for one man, at a time. True mates are usually soul mates.
Another point is that the Torah talks about slavery and how we behave in owning a slave, a Jewish slave, etc. Of course, we know that slavery is a bad thing and never ever want that to be again, but in ancient days, this was the culture of all societies, but by evolving, we know how wrong it was and especially we, ourselves, were slaves in Egypt. In other words, just as there will never be slavery again (in Olam Habah), it makes sense there should never be polygamy again~!
Interesting that this discussion should come up leading into Tu B'Av...
Dov, I believe you've got it right - polygamy would be way too hard for the vast majority of us. And I think you're hinting that the Cherem of Rabbeinu Gershom is expiring just in time for the one man who will be able to handle it - presumably Mashiach Ben David will be worthy of 18 wives just like his forefather (it's even possible that Rabbeinu Gershom saw this through Ruach Hakodesh when he set the 1000 year limit)
According to the Shulchan Aruch, Rabbeinu Gershom apparently expected Mashiach to come 777 years ago. Because it says in Even HaEzer 1 that the Cherem was set to last only until the end of the 5th millenium.
(However, as has been noted here before, in practice this pertains mainly to Sefardim. Ashkenazim are still bound by the Cherem at least until Elyahu shows up any day now, because the Rama there disagrees)
Are you discussing men having a "Harem"?
Good grief, do we want to do that to the men in this era? So the Torah says, this generation is weaker than all the others, and that means men and women.
What is the gender ratio among Jews? If Jewish women outnumber Jewish men by 2-4+ then one COULD argue in favor for reintroducing polygamy, however as others have mentioned one wife is enough.
There is also the issue of where that leaves the leftover Jewish men who in the Messianic era would have that expectation of Hashem wrapping up all loose soul ends among the unmarried of his people so to speak.
One only has to look at the Yishmaelim or other polygamous cultures where men outnumber women to see that such a society is far from stable with a significant number of single men with virtually no stake in society, that is not really something that belongs in the Messianic era if it is to truly be an ideal society.
One could also argue that women from the Lost Tribes and others who are revealed to be Jewish would fill the gap for leftover Jewish men, however until such an event happens where potentially hundreds of millions of people are revealed to be Jewish then it is a moot point.
I have to say that as a woman this whole discussion rubs me the wrong way. I have never personally met a woman who I can imagine would be willing to be in a polygamous relationship. It's the nature of most people, certainly women, to want to be with a soulmate, that ONE special person who is your true best friend and partner in life. The fact that this is true human nature and not just a weakness is demonstrated by the fact that Sarah was jealous of Hagar, Leah of Rochel, etc. I guess in Jewish history there have been certain times when polygamy has been acceptable but it doesn't seem to ever have been the mainstream norm.
From my limited knowledge it seems that pretty much every case of polygamy recorded in the Torah was a non-ideal situation with negative repercussions. Avraham and Sarah. Rochel and Leah. Shlomo HaMelech. Apart from these and whatever other few exceptions almost all of the role models we have from the Torah throughout all generations have been unequivocally monogamous. As a few people have pointed out, Adam and Eve were monogamous. Hashem created Eve as "ezer k'negdo" (not ozrim!). I don't personally understand how polygamy ever became part of Jewish history and halacha but it certainly looks eminently clear that in a Torah sense it was for particular situations, like the above (a king, the shvatim, etc.) and not a normative Jewish way of life. In communities where it was more common, it certainly seems like they were picking up the customs of the places in which they lived.
I don't know anything much about sefardi history, but it is clear that cultures where polygamy is the norm are extremely male dominated. Thank G-d we have moved way away from that paradigm. And we are not going back - not only because times have changed culturally and women now take leadership roles at every strata of society, not only because once you let somebody out of a cage they are not going to willingly walk back in, but because in the spiritual sense geula is a time when malchus (the feminine) will shine. Many of the changes we see in our times, whether universally appropriate or not, are already in some way reflecting that spiritual shift.
The diminishment of the moon, which symbolizes both the Jewish people and the female principle in general, was only ever meant to be a temporary thing. Ultimately we are promised that the moon will be restored to its full brilliance and that the sun and moon will rule together as two luminaries that share one essence. In a similar way, we are taught that a husband and a wife are two halves of one soul.
When Moshiach comes we will not have situations such as war (not enough men) or famine or other situations that have necessitated polygamy in the past. And as jesterhead just said, once the lost tribes etc. come back into the fold who knows what ratios there will be. Surely, with geula, if we have soulmate relationships at all everyone will have one.
Anyway, the world of Moshiach will not look the same as our world. We will not be the same. While it's true, as someone said, that maybe jealousy will go away, so will the fantasies and desires that make polygamy look so attractive to some men.
Anyway, we'll have more complex things to sort through. For example, when a widow remarried and her first husband comes back, who is she married to? When we are reincarnated, as chassidus says every Jew will be, EVERY soul in EVERY body, what will be our relationship with our previous incarnations, the other parts of our souls? It isn't something we can really figure out from where we sit today. The main thing is, may we be able to experience it all, in wondrous ways, SOON SOON SOON!!
Shifra,
For your informatio, I AM a woman, and I am the one who says this. I believe polygamy is necessary in this time of our history for the sake of Am Yisrael. I sense you are married , right? So it is hard for you to identify with the suffering of older single women left out of the shidduch scene. Do you have ANY idea what those poor older single girls go through? What we need is for married women to open their hearts, and understand that welcoming another Jewish woman in the family - NOT in the same household, of course -is for the sake of Am Yisrael, for their dear sisters who are wanting and lacking. Just as we share our physical wealth with our destitute brothers, women should learn to share their husband with their destitute sisters. Doesn't Navi say that at the time of Gog and Magog 6 or 7 women will attach themselves to a man and ask him to marry them? Where is it written? I assume Dov, with his extensive knowledge of sources, can fill us in on that question.
Time to let go of selfishness and let LOVE come in. There is no diminution of love for sharing. A parent can love all his children, and a husband can love his wives the same. It is up to the women, the women are the obstacle in this day and age, it comes from possessiveness.
My take on the matter.
Dov:
Regarding Bavaria: I found what you wrote about the 666th prince very interesting. I want to share with you that as I was driving from Germany - Munich to Austria, we went through that dark, dark region full of dark forests and steep dark grey mountains. The feeling was oppressive and sinister. It truly felt as though this is the abode of the Satan, and if he were to come up from under the earth anywhere it would be right there. The feeling was awful, sickening, nauseating.
I love nature, and in the Catsills for instance nature is warm, loving and inviting. There, nature was a tool of the Sitra Achra. Strange.
So I can totally relate to your description of Amalek springing up from there.
From there, and from the CERN too, of course, they are making sure he will appear from there. The center of Europe is one dark place.
Shabbat Shalom from the Catskill mountains.
Thank you Neshama and Shifra. I was beginning to look at this in a not- so - nice - light.
I am refraining from writing what I have written and erased. We'll leave it at that.....
Feels like the calm before the storm.
Russia missiles attacking the Kurds, Russia launching air missions from Iran, and Turkey announcing more military involvement in Syria.
A big yasher koach to Shifra and those who feel the same way. Plain common sense. Disappointed in those who seem to have a skewed view of basic human nature. Polygamy is an ugly thing and once the doors are, chas v'sholom, opened to that in this sick society of this era, it will definitely lead to other abnormal ways of life. With the introduction of zochor/zochor marriages already into the world, there are now rumors of even sicker things being planned. We, as Jews, should in no way be part of this.
The G-d of Israel said we will be the LEAST of all peoples. A remnant.
Deut.7:7
The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people--for ye were the fewest of all peoples--
Anon. Let us be careful comparing polygamy to other sexual "orientations" which are forbidden D'Oraita to act upon. Polygamy is not ulimately the best marriage situation for most men and women. Yet for a specific minority of special cases and types of souls, having more than one wife is permissible D'Oraita. Polygamy is most certainly not at the perverse level of homosexuality. I would agree that it should not be the way for most men or the first wife who would need to give her assent for her husband to marry a second wife.
Hmm … Cherem against Harem!
“In the olden days” maybe polygamy might have been warranted in order to bring forth the neshomas that needed to be born again to correct their past gilgul (and as written about, to protect young Jewish girls in hostile countries).
However, we are in the ‘end of days’ as this blog is known, and most of the neshomas, I believe, have reincarnated. Thus we have a baalei Teshuva awakening, and geirim from some of those reborn (lost) neshomas. Soon we will be greeting the other historical/biblical neshomas via Techias HaMeisim. Current events need to be filtered al pi the spiritual purposes and according to what is next on the schedule of Hashem.
I don’t think it selfish to not want to share your husband with another woman, i.e. possibly resulting in divorces. I believe some men and women are the end of the line in their ‘family-tree of gilgulim’ and need not marry to produce children, especially if they are older. The remaining men can certainly choose from many a single woman and get married; it doesn’t have to be “bells and whistles” but rather companionship and financial. Of course, this will not sit well with some people, but its possible if one does not want to be alone into the senior years. Really, it’s much better than being alone until 120; to live a more fulfilling JEWISH life.
May EVERYONE meet their soulmate, marry them, and live happily together from now right on into the geula shleima. May Hashem bring everyone's other half from wherever they are, to meet and to recognize and to embrace the other part of themselves, and may NOBODY feel or be alone anymore. There are way, way, way too many wonderful and lonely women AND men out there. Please Hashem!!!!!
Shifra @ 4:35 - ou wrote a perfect comment! Beautifully worded and may those brachot be fulfilled for all who need and want it.
There are enough men and women to go around; it is only because the world is in chaos and confusion that prevents Jews, whether young wanting to build a home and family or older people wanting companionship and even love. Whatever the case, may all the good brachot be granted to all in Bnai Yisrael who need it.
DS the scripture your looking for is ISA 4:1. You will need to read part of Chapter 3 and the rest of Chapter 4 to understand the circumstances of the seven women laying hold of one man. I do not believe we are there today at least looking at it in my area. Your area could be different. The way I know we are close is in Chapter 4:2 it clearly states "On that day HASHEM's sprout will come forth for splendor and honor; and the fruit of the land will be for pride and glory for the survivors of Israel."
Sprout in this verse refers to MBD.
Have a good day. Texas david
Ok, let's seeeee, I'll have a corned beef on rye; two wives; one concubine; a side order of cole slaw; a soda; one additional concubine and a large order of fries.
It's the casual attitude about a sensitive subject that is the disturbing element...
Leah: No one should be treating this subject casually. Let us ask the readers not to be casual about this.
1. When Mashiach comes for those for whom it is permitted, few men should even consider the possibility of marrying a second wife.
2. For the circumstances where marrying a second wife might make sense because of being a certain soul type and because of circumstances, a man should always ask for the assent of the one wife that he already has. The last thing a husband needs on his hands is an angry, spurned woman who has to share her husband. So her soul type matters as much as his soul type.
3. I was speaking to a friend about this today since the entire subject of polygamy on The Blog was brought up by one of my readers and because the response has been pleasantly overwhelming. He told me that his great, great, great grandfather on his mother's side lived in Morocco and had five wives. He was a G-d fearing Jew who was Shomer Mitzvot, but he had five wives! (Hmmmm.) So keep in mind that most of our distaste for this way of life is highly cultural and not always halakhic.... So the arguments against polygamy are NOT intrinsically moral arguments unless the husband is being callous with his existing wife or wives when he marries another and another and another!
4. Dov Bar-Leib is in the first category of men who are in the majority and who has a difficult enough time spending a lifetime pleasing one wife. I have no desire for a second wife.
The scripture in Isaiah 4:1 isn't much proof:
First, 7 women will hold on to one man, not every man - it could be describing a single case; second - they will beg him to marry them, but will he consent?
BTW, a possible scenario where women will outnumber men: myriads of ISIS, Hamas etc. men blow themselves up in foiled assassination attempts, and the surplus of Arab women either convert or discover their lost Jewish roots...
Dov Bar-Leib
When it comes to polygamy among Mizrahi Jewish communities one should bear in mind that along with young arranged marriages and even consanguineous marriages, it was a necessity given the cultural context since the Yishmaelim had and still have a nasty habit of kidnapping, forcibly marrying and converting non-muslim women against their will or via oppressive Yishmaelite laws akin to the Orphans' Decree.
For the humble Noahide, the plain old Chabad site is good enough for many questions to be answered satisfactory.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/Does-Jewish-Law-Forbid-Polygamy.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/770990/jewish/Why-Does-Torah-Law-Allow-Polygamy.htm
Enough of this polygamy nonsense. This is not the blog for it. This scenario has nothing to do with us in modern society where for more than a thousand years, we have adapted to a completely different mindset. Very, very few women at this time of history would even congtemplate such an arrangement. It would be disastrous to her well-being mentally and emotionally which can definitely affect her physically. It is literally unthinkable and, of course, thank H', the Yemenite and Sephardic world cannot participate in such arrangements, as it would be called bigamy. Maybe some do this in secret, who knows. But, we should discontinue with this silly subject.
If someone wants and needs to marry, there is always a man out there for her and a woman out there for him. That is, of course, if he/she is not that particular about everything and is just looking for someone decent. May every Jewish man and woman find their right zivug to marry.
Anonymous (and Dov),
I can tell your enormous distaste for the idea of more than one wife, but it is also clear to me that you are confusing apples and oranges when it comes to that; as Dov mentioned, this has NOTHING to do with the various perversions you are listing - if you are the same Anonymous - it is permitted de Oraita; but, as Dov mentions, is only meant for specific Neshamot; I totally agree with him on that. Only Hashem knows for whom it's best. Meanwhile MAN has forbidden something permmitted. As far as I know, we are not allowed to add or to substract from the Torah. Granted there were special circumstances at the time that required it. However once Mashiach is here those circumstances will be moot: Xtianity will NOT be ruling, as Edom will have been smashed to bits. Even in Israel - and important rabbi from the "sanhedrin" told me so - the reason it is forbidden has strictly to do with SECULAR law, and nothing to do with Halachah. The rabbis would have allowed it already weren't it for the secular government, which we know does everything it can to stifle Torah law.
This said, just because you do not like this topic doesn't mean everything has been said and done about it. Dov, the owner of this blog, had asked us to stop discussing Trump after a certain time, yet the conversation kept going and he allowed it. I am sure he won't mind continuing this topic until it is exhausted for good.
Everybody is allowed their opinion, and Machloket leshem Shamayim is healthy and good.
Be well.
To dmt Texas, david,
Thanks for the exact source in Isaiah. I went and read the paragraphs you suggested. I must say, this pretty much describes the culture in the USA, in Europe, and in Israel today: quite degenerate. Maybe Texas is more fortunate, being in the Bible belt; but think of California, the East Coast, Tel Aviv, Germany, etc: I don't think the description is so far fetched. Please correct me readers if I am wrong.
Bekitztur, in the generation that "has the face of a dog", this is what will happen. Aren't we in this generation right now?? Think of the tattoos, the women with pierced noses with rings that look like a bull in a bullfight, the men with earrings the size of buttons, the hair died green and pink, the lifestyle, the gay marriages, the gay parades, the glorification of transvestites; regular girls that wear tights instead of skirts; a generation in which for a store to be keeping leftover food to give to the hungry is illegal in America; etc, etc, etc; a generation ago we would have been totally shocked by such behavior, but which now has become mainstream and so common.
And Jesterhead,
We don't have to wait for ISIS to blow themselves up. Unfortunately in Israel in particular the death rate of young men is much higher than the death rate of girls, due to wars, terror, and the natural state of things, young men dying off much faster than young women.In America even, starting in the first year of life there is already a surplus of girls, and this keeps getting worse as time goes by, due to young men being more accident prone, various diseases, etc. By the time old age comes, the ration is 61 men to 100 women. For your information. That goes for the US. I am not sure about Israeli statistics but it stands to reason that it is much worse for the above- mentioned reasons.
The shidduch crisis in the frum world in America is very well known. In New York alone, there are tens of thousands of young women looking for shidduchim, for a much smaller number of young men. True, a lot of those young men are not even looking for wives, and for that we can thank the culture of feminism, gay lifestyle glorification etc, as well. So it is both a cultural as well as a demographic problem, a very, very serious problem. I myself know of four lovely young women in NY in their thirties that have everything going for them, yet are unable to find partners. I know some in Israel too: lovely, lovely girls. I know of religious young women who were so desperate they ended up having kids on their own, an absolute tragedy.
And this is only me. Ask yourselves honestly: what about you?
Ok, let us now steer away from this subject of Polygamy. We have already discussed it extensively. I am more interested in what is happening right now in both Louisiana and California. Louisiana since Tisha B'Av has had unbelievable flooding, and California since the 17th of Tamuz has had all-consuming fires. Why those two states? It could be because unlike most other places in America where the Middle third of the culture just fell beneath the 49th level of impurity, these two places may have majority populations who have been beneath the 49th level of impurity for quite a while maybe even decades. In California that would be since the Summer of Promiscuous Immorality in 1967. For California the avant garde third IS in the majority. And they, That Majority, have been at -50 for almost 50 years now.
And Louisiana? Louisiana has a very high percentage of the population that is either Catholic or into black magic (Voodoo). The Catholic factor is intriguing since during the Great Depression, most Catholics in the depressed areas of the US such as Louisiana supported the vicious anti-Semitism of Father Charles Coughlin whose flagship radio station was in Royal Oak, Michigan near Detroit. Coughlin recognized this political base in Louisiana when in 1935 he allied with Huey Long, the Kingfish, in his brief testing of the waters to help Huey Long run for President of the US. Huey was assassinated in the Fall of 1935, and that ended Coughlin's alliance with Huey Long very early in his campaign. But the fact that Coughlin (a vicious Jew hater), who was a native born citizen of Ontario, Canada, thought that he might bring his ideas and political philosophy to America's highest office by allying with Louisiana's favorite populist, speaks volumes of the spiritual state of the State of Louisiana during the Great Depression. The Depression was really bad in most states in the US, but those states did not become majority hotbeds to the ideas of Father Coughlin as Louisiana apparently did.
So if both Louisiana and California are now doomed because of their long-standing status of being at -50 for different reasons, then what will happen nationwide in the US starting around Sukkot 5777 when the Middle Third has been assigned their judgements?
In short while there were significant minority of Catholics in other states, the reaction of the Catholics and non-Catholics in Louisiana to support their own local fascist (in comparison with other states with large Catholic minorities) and to support the philosophy of Father Coughlin points to a far more progressed moral deterioration of the local culture than other states whose populations rejected fascism outright in the 1930s. As a matter of fact, several American archdioceses wanted to have nothing to do with Father Coughlin such as the one in Cincinnati. They condemned him outright. So the Catholic Church was NOT monolithic with regards to the subject of Father Coughlin. Yet, the one in New Orleans, Louisiana had no issue with him, and therefore allowed his alliance with the local fascist lover, Huey Long (who was himself a Baptist).
Three deaths today (19th of Av 5776) of three great Jewish souls
1. Barry Chamish at 64 yrs
2. Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis at 80 years
3. Actor Steven Hill (Shlomo Krakovsky) at 94 yrs
For All three of them, May the the Memories of Tzaddikim be for a Blessing.
I have to tell you that I personally met both Barry Chamish and Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis. I met Barry at a Moshe Feiglin rally a year or two after I made Aliyah. He sold me a copy of the second volume of Rav Martin Antelman's zt"l series "To Eliminate the Opiate". He was selling books including his own, outside in front of the event. And I met Rebbetzin Jungreis when I was staying in Manhattan for two weeks trying to find a shidduch in the early or mid 1990s. I was a guest in someone's house on West End Avenue across the street from the Hineini Center where Rebbetzin Jungreis presided. She gave shiurim there and was also a Shadchanit.
Now, I did not know Steven Hill even though he was known in the 60s as being the leader of the team who was given a "Mission Impossible" for the first two years of the series. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that described something that really made me laugh. Apparently even back then, he was constantly trying to daven in a regular Mincha minyan:
According to Desilu (Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball) executive Herb Solow, once William Shatner (Captain Kirk) burst into his office, claiming "Steve (Hill) asked me how many Jews worked on Star Trek. He was recruiting a prayer group of 10 guys to worship together on top of the studio's highest building and only had six Jews so far from "Mission". He asked if I would come and bring (Leonard) Nimoy and (Robert) Justman and you."[17]
That's ten men, a minyan, for Mincha combining the Jewish actors and executive staff of two television shows, Star Trek and Mission Impossible.
Oy, I meant Rav Dr. Marvin Antelman zt"l. Sorry about that, and I knew him personally too, and I knew him far more than just an acquaintance.
Mishlei 14;11 The house of the wicked will be destroyed, the tent of the righteous will flourish.
Dov,
Please kindly post my latest blog post, here:
http://israeltruthtimes.blogspot.com/2016/08/barry-chamish-ztl.html
About Barry Chamish. I was also privileged to be asked to do a tribute ( the hesped if you like) on his radio show, just half an hour ago.
Yehi Zichro Baruch.
DS
Dov,
I also met Rebbetzin Jungreis in NY years ago. A very special lady. I believe it was at the Homowack Hotel in the Catskills if I recall correctly.
Really sad about her passing too.
Tribute to Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis A”H
"How many people realize that one of the largest kiruv organizations in the world was founded by and continues to be run by a woman?” Interesting fact from the article.
Regarding the passing of the three on the 19th of Av. What we can see here is how they represent three different sectors of Jews these days in the positive way.
l. Rebbitzen Esther Jungreis, a'h - represents the power of the kiruv movement.
2. Barry Chamish, z'l - who, literally, worked endlessly to show the truth of 'labor zionism'.
3. Steven Hill, z'l - the entertainment world where 99% of Jews connected in this field have all left the fold, one way or another - but, here was a man who was able to live his life as a dedicated Jew and still able to work at his craft.
Together, they represented Jewish life in these modern, crazy times but in a very positive way.
May their names and memories be for a blessing. No coincidences.
Dov, consider talking about the scripture changes. The following is from the Jewish virtual library: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/2Chron34.html
They had colleges back then?
Book of Divrei HaYamim II (Chronicles 2):
Chapter 34
34:22 And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college:) and they spake to her to that effect.
Yes, that would be the finding of Sefer Devarim (the Book of Deuteronomy) during the reign of King Yoshiyahu in the Beit HaMikdash. There seems to be a reference in Chronicles II to the fact that the Sefer was found in the place where the donated money for the Temple was kept. Nothing changed about the Torah except its elucidation since Deuteronomy was also written by Moshe, but in that Sefer, HaShem is never mentioned in the First Person. HaShem is referred to in the third person, Moshe in the first person, and Klal Yisrael in the 2nd person. Moshe is giving over the Mishneh Torah, a compilation of the entire Torah in the first four books, whose commandments are being mentioned "a second time" in review. There are specific commandments who appear in written form only in Sefer Devarim (about 70 new mitzvot), but they all can be derived using the Torah in its first four books using the 13 rules of hermeneutical proof or are in the medrashim covering the span of time from the Avot through Parshat Masei or were purely part of the Oral Torah until Sefer Devarim was spoken by Moshe and immediately written down. So in reality all the mitzvot in Sefer Devarim are being given a second time (Mishneh), but the Mishneh Torah or Sefer Devarim begins the transition from the Written Torah in the first four books to the Oral Torah which begins with the 6 Sidrei HaMishneh written down by Yehudah HaNasi 15 centuries later. Prior to that, the entire Oral Torah had remained Oral except for some medrashim which had previously been written down over the course of those 15 centuries. Yet, if some of these 70 mitzvot were not stressed in Sefer Devarim in written form, we would have come to overlook them since the force of a mitzvah being written down is much greater than the force of a mitzvah being proven using the rules of the Oral Torah (the 13 rules) applying those rules to the first four books of the Torah. We know that these mitzvot had been given as part of the Oral Torah because Moshe spoke for 37 days straight starting on Rosh Chodesh Shevat 2488 until he passed away 37 days later on the 7th of Adar. He did not enter a state of prophesy during that time because except for sleeping his speech was continuous. So all the prophesy of his 37 day speech which concluded with Parshat vaYeilech and the mitzvah of Hakhel had been given to him previously to his starting to talk on Rosh Chodesh Shevat. (There might be those who say that the Shekhinah was on him during the entire speech. If this were the case, then no one would have been able to look at him while he was talking. So the prophesy came BEFORE the speech began.)
Also the Mussar of Moshe Rabbeinu, at the beginning of Sefer Devarim, served two purposes. It prepared us to enter the Land of Israel the first time, and it prepares us to enter the Land of Israel in our time, this final pre-Messianic generation. And the Tochachah, The Rebuke, in Devarim is different from the one in VaYikra. The one in VaYikra covers the span of the entire Galut from when the Shekhinah abandoned the First Temple. The one in Devarim hones in on Galut Edom specifically. There are those who say that Hilkiah found the entire Torah which had been lost for generations. This cannot be the case because Yoshiyahu's great grandfather was Chizkiyahu, the greatest righteous king since David. In reality the Rasha in between the two was Menashe, who only reigned for approx. 55 years. That is not more than two generations.
If someone disagrees with my take on Sefer Devarim, please send a comment. I have no problem with people who disagree.
The Vilna Gaon gives us a glimpse of why the Mishneh Torah, Sefer Devarim, could be lost for a while and then found. He makes the following statement. The Torah was given for four Millennia of Jewish history since the first two millennia before Avraham were millennia without the Torah being introduced to the world. Sefer Bereishit corresponds with the Third Millennium (2001- 3000). Sefer Shemot corresponds with the Fourth Millennium (3001- 4000). Sefer VaYikra, like the central shaft of the Menorah, becomes the anchor between the 3rd and 4th Millennia and the 5th and 6th Millennia. It is the Sefer of the Torah's holiest parshiyot, the parshiyot of the Kehunah and the holiness of the nation. Sefer BaMidbar corresponds with the Fifth Millennium (4001- 5000 or 240ce until 1240ce), and Sefer Devarim corresponds with the 6th Millennium (5001- 6000 from the year 1240ce onwards). There are many things that can be derived from this insight. For one, we can see why the Tochachah in Devarim would emphasize the suffering in Galut Edom specifically, that is Jewish History from the burning of the Talmud by S. Louis in the year 5002 or 5004 and the destruction of the Jewish kingdom of Khazaria by the Russians around that same time too.) The Galut from the year 5000 has become much more grievous from what preceded it, no doubt about that. This would also be a time when our analytical powers of deriving things from the Oral Torah would be vastly reduced. In many cases we would simply want to know what is the halakhah given this or that set of parameters. It would explain the need to have mitzvot written down rather than plumbing the depths of the Oral Torah to derive the mitzvot. Devarim also ends with the Brachot on 11 of the 12 tribes which would imply the ingathering of the exiles and the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom during the 6th Millennium. Shimon is missing in that brachah of Moshe, who found Shimon very difficult to bless. I don't know what that implies for him.
Three days ago we learned in Daf Hayomi the story of Horkanus & Aristoblus, the Hashmonaim brothers, fighting over the city of Yerushalayim, where those on the outside (who were allies of Rome) sent a pig up the wall, which triggered an enormous earthquake which was felt all over Israel.
Two days later, a devastating earthquake on the outskirts of Rome.
Very symbolic of the current overturning of Jacob's Mazal over Eisav's.
אמלאה החרבה - Jerusalem & Rome, when one is built the other is destroyed.
Dov,
Can I kindly ask you to post a link to my latest article about Barry's passing, please? Thanks.
http://israeltruthtimes.blogspot.com/2016/08/asking-some-hard-questions-after-barrys.html
Dan,
I absolutely loved your comment of 9:03 AM. Thank you!
DS
Yes, we usually only follow the subject matter in the Parshat HaShavua from the Written Torah when discussing events during the week. The Parshah Shavua is from antiquity. I am not precisely sure when it was set up. Some say it was set up by Moshe Rabbeinu himself while others say that the the weekly parshah was set up by other Nevi'im. So through Ruach Haqodesh, either Moshe or the Nevi'im knew precisely which parshah corresponded to which week of the year.
This is a new trend to discuss the subject matter of the Daf HaYomi, the daily page of Talmud, from the Oral Torah as established for 7 1/2 year cycles, really 7 years and 5 months, set up by Rav Meir Shapiro, zt"l back in the 5680s, less than 100 years ago. Maybe he had Ruach HaQodesh too when setting up each page for each day during each 7 1/2 year cycle!!
I was referring to discussing the subject matter of the Daily Daf when analyzing events in the world during that same week when the Daf was studied of course. The Daf Yomi cycle of 7 1/2 years was set up less than 100 years ago by Rav Meir Shapiro zt"l.
On a personal note, I am looking for my very valuable resource from Arachim, a precursor to Aish HaTorah's Discovery program. I owned a medium thick yellow book that now has gone missing from my house. I am more than a bit upset because this Sefer has rare but valuable Torah information in it. It covers material that was taught over the course of a week rather than just one weekend as the Aish Discovery Program teaches it. But now I can't find it. So I am a bit concerned and pre-occupied trying to find it. Sorry.
Dov,
It can attributed to Ruach HaKodesh of Rav Meir Shapiro, or to incredible Siyata De'Shmaya that he had.
It can also be attributed to the enormous impact on both the spiritual and physical worlds caused by myriads of Jews studying the same page at the same time.
אמר רבי בנימין הכל בחזקת סומין עד שהקדוש ברוך הוא מאיר את עיניהם
May you find it quickly.
Dan: It is still an eye-Opening "coincidence", which as we know does not really exist, that the subject of the daily daf was the precise moment of Edom's ascendancy in establishing its control over Eretz Yisrael by Pompey over 2000 years ago when Pompey was invited into Eretz Yisrael by one of the Chashmonaim brothers at war with his younger brother who controlled Yerushalayim. Pompey in 64- 63bce favored Hyrcanus II over Aristobulus II because Hyrcanus was weaker and therefore would be easier to control upon defeating his younger, more powerful brother Aristobulus. Hyrcanus would be allowed by Pompey to retain his role as Kohen Gadol, but the Malkhut would be transferred from Yerushalayim to Rome. It was a Roman setup brought to you by Pompey from the very beginning. Upon arrogantly entering the Holy of Holies in 63bce after he successfully defeated Hyrcanus II, everything in Pompey's life suddenly began to go wrong. His ascension to power and glory in Rome suddenly and mysteriously took a turn for the worse! But that is another story told by science fiction novelist Isaac Asimov. On the macro level Yerushalayim was taken by the Romans, and whether it was Pompey or Julius Caesar at the helm was simply a story between the two of them.
Hi Dov,
Please kindly post this latest post of mine regarding Barry's passing. It is a reprint of an article he wrote last year or so, which should be an eye opener. Thanks.
http://israeltruthtimes.blogspot.com/2016/08/in-memoriam-this-recent-article-by_25.html
Oh Brother!!! literally!!. An edit from above:
Hyrcanus would be allowed by Pompey to retain his role as Kohen Gadol, but the Malkhut would be transferred from Yerushalayim to Rome. It was a Roman setup brought to you by Pompey from the very beginning. Upon arrogantly entering the Holy of Holies in 63bce after he (Pompey) successfully defeated Aristobulus II, everything in Pompey's life suddenly began to go wrong.
Dan, thank you for the bracha!! I found the Sefer!! Baruch HaShem!
Dan and Dov,
Regarding the Siyata Dishmaya that fills the weekly Parsha and apparently also the Daf Yomi, I would like to point to another current source which I also find filled with Siyata Dishmaya as it relates to daily issues ( at least in my case):
DAILY EMUNAH, by Rav Ashaer. It is a daily e-mail , I understand they appear on some radio station, and their website is coming soon. Worth signing up for it!
https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin?v=001AGxZDV4w6I9eNFSv_mNmHwItEk5k_Q7NrDxTT2nOxrUEKDtMunJLKG7Zs1nPejwAR-bnpSi9oxBRS1vwWTPyNwwSN3Zck6hmYIHDyGO4dXbfq3UJdeMRsWWMf0rqR9NqmVhh07QmdRySZdP3EEm7XA4IXituTJrU
DS
Here is an insight brought to us by Josephus about how we know that even from the beginning of the Roman Exile, which effectively started with Pompey in 63bce (around the Hebrew year 3698), Edom was the principle protagonist. This is from Wikipedia's article on Hyrcanus II, but the quote is actually from Josephus's book Antiquities of the Jews. So I am including it here. It should also be mentioned that Antipater was Herod the Great's father. So once Rome was in charge, Antipater's children could be installed as regional governors acting in Rome's interest:
Hyrcanus II was the eldest son of Alexander Yannai, King and High Priest, and Queen Shlomtzion Alexandra. After the death of Alexander in 76 BC, his widow, Shlomtzion, succeeded to the rule of Judea and installed her elder son Hyrcanus II as High Priest. Alexander had numerous conflicts with the Pharisees.[1] So Hyrcanus was believed to be supported by the Sadducees (Tzidukim), especially later in his tenure.[2]
When Queen Shlomtzion died in 67 BC, she named Hyrcanus II as successor to the Kingship as well.[3]
Hyrcanus II had scarcely reigned three months when his younger brother Aristobulus II rose in rebellion. Hyrcanus advanced against him at the head of his mercenaries and his followers. The brothers met in battle near Jericho and many of Hyrcanus' soldiers went over to Aristobulus II, and thereby gave the latter the victory.[3]
Hyrcanus took refuge in the citadel of Jerusalem; but the capture of the Temple by Aristobulus II compelled Hyrcanus to surrender. A peace was then concluded, according to the terms of which Hyrcanus was to renounce the throne and the office of high priest, but was to enjoy the revenues of the latter office.[4]
This agreement (in 67 bce between Aristobulus II and Hyrcanus II which allowed Aristobulus to rule as King and High Priest but which provided a salary for Hyrcanus as if he were High Priest) however did not last, as Hyrcanus feared that Aristobulus was planning his death. Such fears were furthered by Hyrcanus' adviser Antipater the Idumean (Edomite). According to Josephus, Antipater aimed at controlling Judea by putting the weak Hyrcanus back onto the throne.[3] Hyrcanus took refuge with Aretas III, King of the Nabataeans, who had been bribed by Antipater into espousing the cause of Hyrcanus by the promise of returning Arabian towns taken by the Hasmoneans.
The Nabataeans (sons of Yishmael's eldest son Nevioth) advanced toward Jerusalem with an army of 50,000, took the city and besieged the Temple where Aristobulus had taken refuge for several months. During the siege, the adherents of Hyrcanus stoned the pious Onias (Choni ha-Magel), who had refused to pray for the demise of their opponents, and further angered the priests who were fighting along with Aristobulus by selling them cattle for the paschal sacrifice (Korban Pesach) for the enormous price of one thousand drachmae and then refused to deliver the promised animals for the sacrifice.(Antiquities of the Jews Book 14, 2:2)
Here's another "coincidental" daf placement.
Barry,
Please kindly post this last blog of mine, about Barry again. This time a fundraiser to help him get buried in Israel. He still hasn't been buried! Thanks
http://israeltruthtimes.blogspot.com/2016/08/chesed-shel-emet-helping-barry-get.html
maybe i overlooked it but is there any significance to the man George Soros ?
I don't know where else to vent my anger about Turkey and their insane Erdogan. "Iran to Turkey: Get out of Syria
Iran claims Turkey's offensive "a violation of Syria's sovereignty," as Turkey marches deeper into Kurdish-claimed territory."
I am angry because Erdogan has a psychopathic hatred toward the Kurds. It's just not right that the world lets his vengeance be poured out on the Kurds. They have suffered too much. And now Persia threatens Turkey. I don't know if this is good for thr Kurds, or for Asad, or for ??
Maybe Iran will go after the Turks. Two evil armies could wipe each other out! IY"H
Polygamy was such a good topic of discussions. Why was suppressed? The entire Am Yisrael is the product of a polygamous family that of Yaakov Avinu. This issue is essential for the future Yisrael. Please Rav Dov don't band to any pressure to avoid the subject of polygamy the way of life of our ancestors. I am surprised to see that polygamy became taboo on this blog discussing the end of days and the outcomes. Should we stop to talk about Yaakov Avinu the most relevant polygamous man amongst our ancestors?
I am leaving on a jet plane for three weeks. It is for a must to to Bar Mitzvah. It is at a Reform Temple, but it is a Bar Mitzvah of a close relative.
I will access things from abroad. Yes, Neshama, Erdogan is a seriously evil dictator, and if given a chance, thousands of Syrian Kurds will die in his hands. I have been thinking a lot about Putin's pivot to Erdogan for access to the Mediterranean and because Erdogan at this time is isolated from the West in so many ways. And it is a way for him to also break up NATO. Obama also has a plan for immediately after the American elections. He and the French are waiting for that very moment when he is a lame duck for two months to bring some of his most pressing issues up for UNSC votes. He will have to work fast, but he will. He is also on the short list to be the next Sec. General of the UN. And I think that he is the key to unifying NATO with Erdogan, Russia, and Persia. And we know what that plan is, don't we??
Things may yet be poised to move quickly after all. After Rosh HaShanah, 2/3rds of Mankind will already be on G-d's short list. All Mankind stands before Judgement on Rosh HaShanah, and during the course of this past year, the Middle Third of the human race has fallen below -49. Yet, nothing about that is sealed until the following, this coming, Rosh HaShanah and Hoshana Rabbah. So I still hold out hope.
...must go to Bar Mitzvah...
Thank you, Shoshana,
I am glad I am not the only woman to feel the way you do.
I tend to agree with you: Dov sort of bowed to pressure. Don't let yourself be intimidated, Dov, please! The majority is not necessarily right. Barry is a perfect example of that: the MSM managed to poison public opinion about him, so as soon as he is mentioned, sheep come out of the wood works to point a finger at his supposed "conspiracy theories" without bothering to find out if there might be truth to his writings. He was a brilliant, insightful writer, but lashon hara buried him, figuratively. Same thing with the polygamy issue: people who might agree with the principle get intimidated by the forceful, hostile majority.
It is not easy to be a pioneer, a voice in the wilderness.
Have a safe trip Dov
DS
Inevitably some degree of De-Westernization (albeit still remaining a developed / mechanized country) will have to take place among the Jewish people prior to the Messianic Era, along with ditching the Xian-influenced universalized yet inauthentic Euro-Centric baggage many Jews have adopted over the course of the Galut (with its imposition on non-European Jews with more authentic traditions being one of the main causes of baseless hatred).
DS: Disagree with both you and Shoshana. Firstly, Dov did not bow out because of the feedbackk from most of the commenters. He said that he can't understand how a man can take another wife when he finds it so hard to put up with one and most men, of course, feel that way (not, c'v, in a bad way but life doesn't allow it, especially in the modern era).
Believe when we will have techiyat hameisim, those who had more than one wife and were happily married to them will be united; but do not believe it makes any COMMON SENSE for such backwardness today. It goes against the typical human nature of women as history has and is still proving. H', as pointed out already, created just Chava for Adam! The reason for our patriarchs to have more than one wife was to build a nation, and, of course, men would love to have a harem of women at their beck and call, but life does not work that way. Also, find it hard for women to be promoting and backing this up because it goes against all natural instincts of women.
This should never be promoted again within the Jewish world or the general world.
As said above in this comment, those who have and had in prior lives more than one wife and were happy probably will stay the same, but we have evolved to where both the man and woman should be respected and that means (even for the sake of the children) one wife to one man.
There are enough men to go around for women, but not every woman would like any man and vice versa, and, therefore, there was always this kind of problem, especially in the modern era where shidduchim are no longer set up by parents - it has nothing to do with a lack of either eligible men/women. Seems only a woman who would like to go after married men would even contemplate such foolishness, no disrespect to either of you, but very hard to swallow why two women would be thinking this way.
We pray every Jewish son and daughter find his/her right zivug and such idea as polygamy should not even come into play.
Shoshana, DS, I think what the issue for me is either reading comments or listening to the discussion of polygamy in a favorable light from anyone in this generation. Why? In my opinion, there is no one(or very few)in this generation who are on the level to truly understand the spiritual elements of this.
It wasn't so wonderful for the imahos, so who would I be to pretend that it would be for me and I am no where near the same universe in comparison to the imahos.
The second issue is that men in this generation are nowhere near the level of the avos. For the man, there is a greater degree of physical desire and a greater height to fall, so bringing this up may fire up the potential to feed in to these thoughts.
There are a few areas of Torah that depict the negative aspects of this for the men who were(and still are) our spiritual giants.
I think there are plenty of other mitzvos that can elevate a Jew spiritually than to discuss something that has not been on the scene for a few thousand years that no one(or very few) seem to be on the level for currently...
I am glad that I am sensitive to this and not the other way around. I am also grateful to Dov for being sensitive to this. It does not mean that he "bowed to the pressure." I believe he was respectful of the sensitive nature of some (like me.)
I agree with anonymous:"...no disrespect to either of you, but very hard to swallow why two women would be thinking this way."
With all due respect,
Leah
Maybe we should put it to test?
Would any of the protagonists of the idea be willing to put up a web site for polygamous Shidduchim? Let's see how many sign up :)
I'll share my thoughts on the subject - not saying "right or wrong".
As someone already said, in a perfect world God created one woman for one man - Adam and Chavah.
Avraham and Sarah were perfectly matched. Bringing Hagar into it was a huge mistake from the beginning and it was based on a lack of faith that Hashem could (would) give them the promised child without their doing some kind of "hishtadlut" to bring it about.
(Remember, just because our ancestors did things doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. The Tanakh tells us their merits as well as their sins.)
On the Yitzchak and Rivka - one man/one woman.
Ah, Ya'aqov. Why the two sisters? Because when Eisav sold him the borthright, he had to take on the jobs of both and that included taking on his wife and his share of the children. hence - two wives. As for the two maidservants. I have no source to point to. I just always felt that it was done as a chesed to the maidservants who while in service to their mistresses, were not free to go and find husbands and have children as long as they served.
Moshe Rabeinu - one man/one woman to whom he had no time to give so he divorced her and then had none.
Yosef - one man/one woman - Osnat.
David and Shlomo - multiple wives due to their status as kings and the (perceived) need to make political alliances. Although there are sources which indicate that Batsheva was David's soul mate and of course it was their progeny together who was destined to inherit the throne.
It's an interesting discussion. It seems clear to me that the ideal is one man/one woman. In my experience, there are no shortage of men to marry only a shortage of men willing to marry. Lots and lots and lots of single men out there. I wonder what they are waiting for and why davka this mitzvah does not interest them.
-me
-me
Agree with largely what you have said regarding monogamy, however dispute having the blame largely fall on single men as opposed to taking a more in-depth approach, perhaps there are others reasons people are unwilling to take into consideration (such as hypergamy and looking for the bigger better deal, etc)?
The following articles do not exactly help matters and that is within the Orthodox segment, unfortunately there are those who'd rather marry out then marry a Jewish guy and assuming they even care about Judaism to begin with could simply rationalize their actions under the rationale their children will be Jewish regardless of the father, ignoring the fact there were checks and balances in the time of the 12 tribes (from the conquest of Canaan until the exile of the 10 tribes) with fathers passing on tribal status (along with kingship, priesthood and land inheritance depending on the tribe / family) to children of Jewish mothers.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-rising-numbers-of-jewish-women-single-motherhood-beckons/
http://forward.com/sisterhood/339783/qa-dina-pinner-of-kayamamoms-talks-motherhood-for-single-orthodox-women/
AHA! Thank you, Jesterhead, we are finally getting closer to the truth of the matter. This is what is going on in the Orthodox Jewish world. Don't we have any shame to allow such a situation to continue? Wouldn't it better to revert to the PERMISSIBLE - I am not saying the RECOMMENDED,- according to Torah? The Cherem of Rabbi Gershon is OVER, get used to it! Many rabbis know that and agree with the idea, although their hands are tied at the moment because of societal pressure, prejudice, and secular law.
End-times geopolitics revolving around Turkey
Only weeks after an attempted coup threatened his rule, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is on the move both militarily and diplomatically. Turkish forces are continuing their offensive against American-backed Kurdish forces. And the West is reeling from Turkey’s sudden rapprochement with Russia.
Erdogan’s position is stronger than ever following the failed coup, with his approval ratings reaching new highs. In fact, the Turkish president has benefited so much from the abortive attempt to overthrow him many observers suspect he staged the entire thing as a false flag operation.
Tensions between the United States and Turkey, a NATO ally, continue to increase. The United States is reportedly transferring nuclear weapons out of Turkey in order to safeguard American control. Despite increasingly desperate American pleading, the United States has thus far been unable to stop Turkey’s war against the Syrian Kurds. And though serious tensions remain between Turkey and Russia, the limited partnership between the two powers, whatever economic benefits to both nations exist, weakens American influence in the Middle East.
Russian and Turkish policies have long been of urgent interest. Those who know the prophecies of Yechezkel 38 are aware of a very pointed declaration that in the last days, in the days of a miraculously returned Israel, Magog (many have believed to be Russia) would join with Persia (modern day Iran) and string several other nations along with them – for the purpose of attacking Israel, The prophecies say the attack upon Israel will ‘come from the North.’ Turkey lies directly north of Israel. Additionally, a number of prophecy experts believe (based upon a large body of biblical and historical evidence) that Turkey itself could actually be the Magog (perhaps even in alliance with Russia) spoken of in Yechezkel 38.
We know that lately Russia and Iran have been dramatically strengthening ties. The two nations have been standing together against ISIS in the Syrian civil war. Of course it is also Iran that has continually breathed out direct and very public threats of utterly destroying Israel, especially once Iran develops deliverable nuclear weapons. And, it is no secret that Russia has a history of nuclear involvement with Iran.
Indeed, the lessening of tensions between Russia and Turkey was especially surprising to many observers because of the long-standing rivalry between Shiite Iran and Sunni Turkey.
Russia is a long-standing Iranian ally. Recently, Russia admitted it deployed strategic bombers and fighter bombers in Iran. With the new-found Russian-Turkish partnership, Putin’s junior partner Iran and its one-time enemy Turkey are also working together to a limited extent.
cont.
Turkey will be directly involved in this biblical prediction of a cataclysmic and northern assault upon the ‘unsuspecting’ land of a prophetically returned Israel. With that understanding, this latest attempt by Turkey and Russia to firm up an alliance. Especially given all the other factors of the current Middle East unrest – including China’s presence in Syria, connected by a military alliance with Russia.”
However the development on the ground could also be explained as a partial reconciliation made out of economic necessity,” he explained “Russia’s economy relies heavily on natural gas and oil exports. Turkey controls the Bosporus, and thus Russia’s access to the Mediterranean Sea. Thus, despite all of Putin’s chest thumping after Turkey shot down a Russian military jet, Russia needs Turkish cooperation.
Likewise, Turkey relies heavily on the millions of Russian tourists who come to Turkey each year to enjoy the beautiful coasts. After Turkey shot down Russia jet and [the] president refused to apologize, Putin imposes stiff sanctions, and the lack of Russian tourism hit Turkey’s economy hard. Thus, despite all of the warm and fuzzy speeches about reconciliation, Russia and Turkey have simply returned to a shallow friendship of convenience for both of them.
The growing ambitions of Turkish president Erdogan, whom he has in the past compared to Adolf Hitler. the “rise of a deeply nationalist-Islamist dictatorship in Turkey. This is a nation that until recently been considered an ally of the United States and is a fellow member of NATO. After having suspended the constitution and purging tens of thousands of alleged coup plotters from every nook and cranny of both the government and the general public, Turkey has experienced a revolution. Whether we are comparing this to the Iranian Islamic revolution of 1979 or Hitler’s ‘Night of Long Knives,’ the analogies are merited.
The U.S. has a long history of creating its enemies of tomorrow today. It helped create the Taliban to fight against Russia. Then the U.S. went to war with them. We helped create Saddam Hussein. Then we went to war with him. For the past twenty years, the U.S. has been getting behind Turkey’s seemingly moderate Islamic movement. The great red dragon that is emerging however is not one that will likely be overcome as easily as Saddam Hussein.
In the long term, what is emerging in Turkey will continue to be a massive foreign policy conundrum that is going to require any future American administration a profound level of wisdom and skill to navigate. In the short term, the roughly 100,000 Iranian backed militia in Iraq is a far greater concern. With Iran stepping up its presence in the region – another event that I have been predicting for some time – a clash between Turkey and Iran is increasingly becoming a very real possibility.”
A conflict between Iran and Turkey is the more likely short term outcome than a grand alliance against Israel.
Turkey is the most critical geopolitical actor from a geopolitical perspective. Turkey was one of the U.S. strongest ‘democratic’ allies in the Middle East. How could it be that Turkey might play into a dramatic assault upon Israel, the U.S's other strong democratic Middle Eastern ally?
cont.
cont.
But now look! Turkey, under Erdogan, is quickly becoming an Islamic caliphate with dreams of becoming, once again, the hub of Middle Eastern Islamic power – a resurrected Ottoman Empire if you will. Ergodon has long appealed to the people of lands that historically were in the Ottoman Empire to legitimize his rule and imperial ambitions.
The Torah clearly declares that the last days would be marked by the return of Israel, and Israel’s possession of Jerusalem. The prophecies also speak of dramatic turmoil in the Middle East in the last days. Those same prophecies speak of Israel being surrounded by nations (all of them just happen to be Islamic today) that will eventually form a coalition and attempt to drive them from the land. We are now watching every bit of that unfolding before us, and we are the first generation to see it happen.
The secular world scoffs at the Word of G'd, – yet that same secular world, perhaps unknowingly, reports those prophecy fulfilments in their 24/7 news cycle each week. It’s almost as though G'd will not be mocked.
DS
Might be the case though do have misgivings given the potential to further disincentivize single or low-status men (then they already are in today's world) were polygamy reintroduced, even without the Yishmaelite example (in one of my previous posts) it would threaten to create a Jewish equivalent to the Lost Boys that polygamous Mormon sects practice in order to reduce competition for wives.
There is also the fact there are only a limited-number of Jewish men available (say around 1-20% the latter figure based on the pareto bell curve aka 80/20 rule) who are potentially capable of supporting more then one wife.
Assuming the maximum allowed is similar to the Yishmaelites (4 wives) sans Jewish royalty (including Moshiach) and even without reintroducing Pilegesh, the Jewish people would be faced with a situation where in the worst case scenario the lower 80% of single Jewish men would be in competition for roughly less then 20% of leftover Jewish women.
Even if the maximum allowed were 2 wives instead of 4 wives, that still leaves the lower 80% of single Jewish men fighting to marry 60% of Jewish women with 20% of leftover Jewish men never having the opportunity to start a family short of marrying out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_boys_%28Mormon_fundamentalism%29
Thanks, Jesterhead. This is very important information of which I was not aware.
Of course, Am Yisrael is different, and I would sure hope that our men would have enough sensitivity to avoid such abominations. I am asking; how was this feasible, say, in the time of Chana and Pnina? Do we forget that Shmuel Hanavi was the product of such a marriage? We cannot condemn a perfectly legitimate and permitted social arrangement as perverted and forbidden, we just have to rediscover the right formula for its success.
And regarding Yaakov Avinu, the Torah specifies that marrying two SISTERS is forbidden, which is why Rachel passed away the moment she entered the holy soil of Eretz Yisrael; in no way does it forbid marrying to unrelated women, it doesn't even forbid marrying two cousins! Are we then smarter that Hashem?
Think it's time to stop this talk with bringing back polygamy to the Jewish people. Does anyone think of the children in this type of a marriage, which is the basis for young couples to marry. Imagine some man with two wives or more and children from each of them and the jealousies, etc. that it would bring from these children, not even speaking of the wives and the instability it would bring to the family. Why in the world would one even contemplate this type of union? Who can afford it? Even among the wealthy, it would just prove that this man has wandering eyes and one woman is not enough for him. Besides, what's wrong with these women where they don't mind sharing their other half? Maybe it's because many women and even men do not marry with real love and true compatibilty for the other.
If the secular world ever gave something really good to civilized society, believe it was (as H' created Adam v'Chava) the law of monogamy and disallowing polygamy. We need to leave well enough alone and pray that all Jewish sons and daughters find their right mates and all to have happiness.
Anonymous,
Actually I know one family like this - religious Jews, Sephardim. The father has 6 children from the first wife and 9 from the second. The children get along, the father takes turns on Shabbat, spending a few hours with one set of children, and a few hours with the second set of children. They are very religious, spend a lot of time in one of our holy places davening . B"H they seem to be doing fine, the older kids are all married, or at least most of them, by now, the younger kids, from the second wife, are still at home. I am friends with both wives, both very special people. Of course the mothers live in different localities, but on Shabbat they are mostly all together. That man is a true patriarch, 15 children!
True there is friction between the wives at times, jealousy. But neither of the wives is willing to relinquish the husband, and neither is the husband abandoning either of his wives. The problems are mostly financial, although they do manage. I am not saying they are necessarily a model to be emulated. I am saying that it is a lot better than having women living lonely lives or worse, giving birth to children who will never know their father. I can't understand how such a scenario can be condoned. That hurts children a lot more than having to share your father with the children of another woman!
Warning! Satire! Not meant to insult, just straight satire!!!!
Not directed at any individual!
Roll up! Roll up! Roll up!
Cherem ends in approximately the year 2028!
Buy your chuppahs now! Don't wait!
Rush Orders! Cash on Delivery! No one will be turned away!
No wedding party too large! Come one, come four!
Reluctant kallahs? No problem, we have ways of making her accept!
We also provide shiurim for those reluctant to accept a new reality
Shiurim titles are:
Immature no more
Acceptance: getting used to your new life whether you like it or not
Jealousy: It's you darling- not me
Guilt no more: Sharing your spouse and your spouse's spouse's spouse's spouse's spouse
What to tell the children
Baalei teshuva: How to explain this to anyone and everyone who is still accepting your phone calls
many more shiurim titles available.....(but far too sarcastic too print) ;)
Ok, ok, I'll stop. This is getting way over the top and yes, I'm being a bit, ok, way too satirical about this, but man, I cannot for the life of me, picture (or stomach) a spouse with multiple spouses.... Ewwwwwww, blechhhh. You could not pay me enough.....
Leah,
You can be satirical all you want - all it does is show your unwillingness to seriously examine the issues and questions raised here. There are pluses, and there are minuses, to both sides. An honest approach would be to listen to all arguments, and then in a just manner arrive to a conclusion. For this we will need the renewed Sanhedrin, who G-d willing will be made up of serious, brave and G-d fearing individuals able to look at every angle of this question.
Mashiach is on the way, isn't he!?
Has anyone taken into consideration that allowing polygamy comes part and parcel with allowing allowing men to divorce their wives against their will?
Cherem DeRabeinu Gershom forbids both.
It's horrible that anyone is unmarried, or unhappily married, who wants to be happily married. There were many years in my life when I longed for that with all my being and didn't know if it would ever come true. I would never, ever minimize the pain of that longing. May Hashem make sure, as part of geula and even before, that EVERYONE who wants to be is happily and healthily married!
That said, this seems like an entertaining but ridiculous discussion. So far there is not one shred of evidence to indicate that any happily married woman would consider "sharing" her husband with another woman. This goes against the core of human nature, whatever halacha does or doesn't say. It seems like the people proposing this possibility are either women deeply longing to get married and somehow not believing that there is a nice guy out there just for them, or guys thinking a little polygamy could be a pleasant thing.
Guys already aware of the serious work and responsibilities that a good marriage brings are not interested in working exponentially harder. Women who are either happy with their husbands or threatened by their husband's not-necessarily-complete-commitment find the idea either threatening or ridiculous. In the human nature (not halachic) realm, people are not prone to share their most intimate relationships. Why on earth would they?? A spouse is not a commodity, to be divided into two. A spouse in a mature relationship is meant to be about becoming ONE. That is challenging enough when there are only two of you. If difficult, a second relationship would make it impossible. If that kind of closeness exists, nobody in their right mind would give it away. There have to be far better and more realistic ways to deal with the issue of wonderful women not wanting (and not deserving!) to be alone!
The one example just shared by DS sounds like a patriarchal arrangement that the women have to tolerate and sometimes do. When people have no choice they might try to adapt, but my point is, nobody in a good marriage (or wanting a good marriage) with their spouse would submit to this by choice. Which makes the discussion wacky, except for those NOT yet married. And for many, even then.
As for those wonderful women still longing to be married, again, may Hashem, who works wonders, bring them together IMMEDIATELY with their own precious soul mates, and let them build together a binyan adei ad. If we're talking about geula, that is not a big hard thing for Hashem to do.
Actually DS, my original response to you with regards to your immaturity in capital scream words "The cherem is OVER- get used to it!" I erased as I felt it would have been insulting to you in public.
In my opinion, you only neutralized your perspective to include both sides in a softened stance when you realized it was not going over well with some of the readers on this blog.
Once again, from previous posts, it is this desire that is alarming and causes some of us to wonder what the etiology for you or any woman to race emotionally toward something that is largely unfavorable.
Yes, Moshiach is coming. Thankfully.
DS: Just because you know of a couple like this and somehow they work it out and, of course, it is allowed by the Sephardim, even though the legal law, B'H, does not allow it, really means nothing and you can be assured that these two women would rather have had a normal one-man relationship and not sharing the 'man'.
Hard to understand what is driving your thought processes in this regard. I am sure that if you would take 100 women and ask their opinions, maybe only '2' would agree with you and even a thousand women, maybe '10'. One woman for one man is the way the world was created and should continue. The only reason that H' gives the okay for this is because of man's proclivity of desiring more than one woman and this gives sort of a hechsher, but it is definitely not a 'plus' for the woman!!! This is not something that should be pursued! Better to pray that the men not be so picky and neither the women, so this shidduch problem would no longer be a problem.
Thank you.
Now, I will back out of this discussion because Dov has been away from this blog for a couple of days and bam! What's this going on?
We will have true clarification when Moshiach arrives and the Sanhedrin is reinstated etc.
(as DS's last post suggests)
No disrespect meant to anyone. Be well.
-Leah
BS"D
We are in the last month of the Year of Hakhel, Motzei Shviis related then Ben Dovid Ba, etc.
Please visit Hakhel5776.com
Fill out the information as an "affiliate" - we are finishing a quick series of letters and videos on Kabbalah of Moshiach. Share this information, as Moshiach btol the Baal Shem Tov "when your wellsprings go forth..." that's when the redemption will happen.
The wellsprings are springing forth in Dov's End of Days blog, now let's do one mroe thing that directly relates to bringing the redemption, and commit to joining each other and uniting in receiving Moshiach Tzidkeinu immediately now in the year of Hakhel, Amen.
- Ronnie
Leah,
You sure have a wild imagination! First I am shouting, or so you have decided - because of capitals. Then I backed out "when [I} realized it was not going over well with some of the readers on this blog." Hmmm, how is that for a projection - maybe that is what YOU would do in such a situation. Not me! First of all I did not scream, that is your interpretation of the capitals. I stressed, difference. Second, I am not in the habit of being influenced by whether people like my stance or not. Not at all: the reason I softened my approach is because I heard some very solid arguments, first from Jesterhead, then from somebody else outside of this conversation who also stressed those unwanted consequences of polygamy such as men rushing to do that, with a subsequent dearth of women, which would be just as tragic. So therefore this issue has to be examined very very carefully. I was only looking at one terrible situation without looking at the reverse possible terrible consequence which could result, the demographic imbalance. This led me to reconsider my one-sided view. No matter what, we cannot have a situation where either men OR women end up severely outnumbered.
And I am also not saying that this situation is fit for everyone. Obviously many couples are much better off just between the two of them. However there are many situations that do warrant a relief, for instance a couple ( I know one such couple) where the woman, a professional mother of 3, became wheelchair bound. She loves her husband, yet she was overjoyed at the suggestion that possibly a second wife to her husband could be a solution. Or, a man whose first wife cannot have children, yet they love each other. There are many such situations where a second woman in the household would be very, very welcome.
But again, if the result of this relaxation of rules would lead to an opposite imbalance then it's a problem. I don't know what the solution is, frankly.
DS, I believe that if you reread your comment on the "cherem etc, get used to it etc." many posts above, it's possible, that you may see the direct and hard stance that it portrays. I mean no disrespect in pointing this out and ultimately appreciate the communication with you.
I wish you well.
Kol tov.
Ah, the Month of Elul, a month long excursion into Teshuva, a month of examining our motivations and behavior, proverbial and actual, brainwaves and verbalism.
Wishing everyone a return to the middle path of Judaism, as our Rambam advises.
Some men in the past took a second wife if the first could not have children, rather than divorce the first wife. As I understood it, if the first wife did not have a child by ten years of marraige, the man was to divorce her and take a new wife so as to fulfill his mitzvah to have at minimum a boy and a girl. I believe this was also the case with Chanah and Peninah. Chanah did not have children, so her husband married Peninah who had many and then finally Hashem answered Chanah and opened her womb and she gave birth to Shmuel HaNavi.
Maybe someone else know these details better and could elaborate on them.
... And wishing everyone TRUTH!
DS
Ferguson activist Darren Seals has been found shot dead in a burned out car.
He had recently claimed he had been threatened by detectives for challenging the police.
On September 5th he posted a link to a 45 minute interview with Ferguson activist Nyota Uhura, which he claimed was the only one that told the truth about Ferguson and Black Lives Matter, and how it was a fraudulent movement.
The interview summary:
1 - The original Ferguson movement was purely against police brutality and was called "Hands Up Don't Shoot".
2 - Black Lives Matter "turned up" in Ferguson and took over the protests. It bizarrely pushed a pro homosexual agenda, and tried to marginalise the role of African American men.
3 - It also criticised the older generations, therefore breaking up the community protest effort.
4 - It also focussed on "Israel vs Palestine", a cause not related to African-Americans.
5 - These were diversion tactics which subjugated the original reasons for protest, and sidelined the community activists in Ferguson, replacing them with national figureheads such as De Ray McKesson who are funded by George Soros.
6 - Funds raised for Ferguson have not found their way to the people of Ferguson.
The interview is here, unless someone somewhere removes it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcGby7xvoZg&feature=youtu.be
''Teshuva, tefilla and tzedaka cancel the decree''
walk your talk,
www.gofundme.com/a123b
Polygamy is at the foundation of Am Yisrael. Its revival is essential to the future nation of priests that has to multiply as numerous as the stars of the universe. The present agony of Am Yisrael concerning polygamy is just the weakness of the current end of days generations. It is just a matter of time until Sanhendrin validates polygamy as being kosher.
Beemet,those opposing polygamy do in fact are against the Torah. That is understandable considering the fall of humanity under -50 level. Gradually people understand the great importance of polygamy for olam haba. The coming of Mashiakh will remove any doubt that Am Yisrael will be polygamous for eternity.
Those lamenting against polygamy should wake up and realize that a nation founded by a polygamous man, Yaakov Avinu, has a polygamous future allowed by the eternal Torah. Are you against Torah commentator? If so, then you are not Jewish! Simply like that! You better support polygamy to speed up geulah instead of finding arguments against a family structure allowed by the Holy Torah. Be Jewish, will you?
There are thousands of Jewish women who married Arabs. These women are lost, their progeny will stab you later, as H'' punished Yisrael for her wrong doings. Are you waking up? Are you still fighting against polygamy, thus against the Torah?
If the Sanhedrin doesn't solve the issue of polygamy soon, this religious body isn't relevant for the present. In the meantime Am Yisrael suffers, her daughtes go after Arab men, the nation becomes weaker. The MK's should address the matter in open sessions discussing why the Bedouins could be polygamous, but not the Jews? The Erev Rav is at work to destroy Yisrael from within by keeping the monogamous Xian ideas as a norm for Am Yisrael. Ad matay?
Guess what . . ."The solution is polygamy'. Polygamy and divorce are on the rise in war-torn Syria." An article on arutz7.
Extremely strange comments by the above commenter on polygamy. This obsession is quite strange; unless there are people that they might know who are far gone from Yiddishkeit and their daughters are marrying, c'v, arabs. There are many young Jewish men and women and no need for such a drastic measure to be taken within klal Yisrael. This could make more families break down even more than one can imagine if all of a sudden this was allowed. No woman (99%) would want this and if her husband were to decide to take another woman or two, this could create friction within a family that would make ordinary divorce look like child's play.
What is important to the Jewish people is Jewish education for the youth which many of the Israeli children have been denied. They think there is no difference between a Jew and a non-Jew. Jewish education is vital! Then there wouldn't be intermarriage because there are B'H enough men and women; may each find his/her right zivug! Jewish couples, zivug = one man and one woman.
@anonymous,
Agreed.
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