Wednesday, August 17, 2005

The Middle of the Churban

Please forgive me all. I relied on the words of tsaddikim whose words may still be correct. I have learned a lesson. From now on I will only comment on events in retrospect. I will not use the words of tsaddikim to predict future events.

I have just spent two nights in a row trucking people down to Kissufim junction. I see that G-d has not yet blessed my efforts with success. I am in a state of deep sadness right now. It looks like the Targum Yonatan's description of the last vision of Moshe Rabbeinu about this tragedy is coming true. The future will take place as the Creator desires.

Dear G-d, please save us now!

I will comment more when this mess reaches its completion.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reb Dov-

Do not allow despair to grab hold! Even if every last Jew is taken from their homes, it is not over. It is part of the Almighty's plan that we cannot see. No one holds the rights to the future and what we can learn here is that the ONLY one we can trust in 100% is Avinu Shebashamayim.
Do not lose your spirit!


8/17/2005 4:38 PM  
Blogger Yaakov said...

Simcha poretz geder. Vda'l.

8/17/2005 4:41 PM  
Blogger Yaakov said...

100% Shoshana!

Salvation will not come before the last moment -- DO NOT DESPAIR!

Hashem's salvation will not come before the very last moment, until everyone -- including the "believers" -- thinks that the situation is irreversable.

Do not let up on prayer and tehillim, especially #20 and #91 (repeatedly, as per Rav Mordechai Eliyahu)

It is always darkest before the dawn.

Nachamu Nachamu Ami...

8/17/2005 4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reaction of the nation is swinging our way - now that Sharon ordered soldiers to commit this crime against their brothers, nation and themselves many are realizing how much this is opposed to their essence – they feel broken inside and as Rav Dessler writes that Hashem puts people in a situation opposite their nature to bring them to their highest and truest self – so Avraham was raised in the home of idolatry and Yakov spent decades with Lavan which made him into the ish emet – Moshe was raised in the immoral palace of paroh - these situations developed and molded them.

The settlers and demonstrators on the whole handled themselves exceptionally – it was a great Kiddush Hashem the way they spoke to the soldiers and treated them – offering them food and davening with them…

There will likely be many demonstrations, road blockings, backlash against Sharon and his cohorts but the evil in exerting itself is burning itself out – the # and the will of soldiers to physical oppose peaceful demonstrators is declining quickly – soldiers are breaking down already after evacuating 1 or 2 homes and are needing replacements which exposes more people to the taste of this poison – how will people feel as they tear the Cohen children from their home in Kfar Darom – there are some scenes that break the hardest of hearts - even the german soldiers couldn’t take the horror of the Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing units) they were assigned to - the heroic settlers of Gush Katif have endured 1000s of missiles raining down on them almost on a daily basis for years now and if we ask “isn’t this a chilul Hashem?'"– we see that it is really a kiddush Hashem as we witness the reaction - such tremendous faith in Hashem despite all the adversity and still waiting for salvation – our faith continues under these harsher conditions - the field of the farmer must 1st be broken up to prepare for the new harvest.

8/17/2005 5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do not despair! There ARE things to be sad about and there ARE things to rejoice about. Only that we KNOW what to be sad about and when. Beleive that Hashem creates the world anew constantly and really only He knows what is in store. That is enough to go on. No matter what happens, He is in control, albeit in the miraculous nature of His Hiddenness, He will not abandon those who yearn for good. May we merit to see His Ultimate Kindness and Justice in this world with Peace and Blessing. May we draw his Merciful illuminations and may we be granted from His Wisdom and be comforted. Only do not ignore the Power of G-d to Redeem those who cry out to Him in Truth, may we be counted amongst them. So it was that Rabbi Akiva laughed... Historically we are all his talmidim. We are told that the Geulah will be unimaginable so we must hold on to that Faith no matter what we see or think will happen. Dear Brother and Beloved Neshamah, the result will only be that Hashem will not abandon His Promise to B'nai Yisrael. The Creator has Spoken it and it will be so. Even the Churban will be forgotten as a dream when the time comes. It will come, we pray it is today and we must continue do so if necessary tomorrow.......

8/17/2005 5:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen, Judah!

As I read the accounts of the soldiers praying and crying with the citizens they've been sent to deport, I'm feeling an incredible pain in them - their souls reawakening to their true nature and that HaShem, after all this, will recreate them even stronger in their faith and determination to protect Am Yisroel and Eretz Yisroel... that they'll be an impenetrable force for HaShem's Will in the coming years. Yes, the spiritual warfare will get much more intense, but HaShem is recreating our hearts to hearts of flesh and strength. Chazak!

8/17/2005 5:56 PM  
Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Letters of intent to form this present evil government of the Erev Rav were signed by UTJ (United Torah Judaisam) on the ninth or Tenth of Tevet. The tsunami occurred the following week, and the government was established on the 23rd of Tevet this year. Sharon's government would have assuredly collapsed if not for UTJ's participation This is all open for the public record. Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Yerushalayim lasted 2 1/2 years. I do not know if that means that this siege should last that long or not.

There are many amongst UTJ's governing coucil that were against their joining this government from the beginning. The Admor of Sadigora and the Erloir Rebbe, just to name two, valiantly tried to prevent UTJ's entrance into the government until after Sharon called for new elections. Yet, their pleas would not sway those who decided to join. I, personally, do not feel worthy enough (as a matter of fact I am heartbroken to write this) to take on Rabbanim that others here and in America say are their Gedolim. Yet, the fact is that the siege of Jerusalem began on the Tenth of Tevet 5765 when this Erev Rav government was constituted.

8/17/2005 6:10 PM  
Blogger Yaakov said...

10 Teves!
Dov, with that piece of information you have just made my day.

See this brief excerpt from a sicha from the Lubavitcher Rebbe in 5752, two months before the stroke that silenced him.

B'kitzur, the gemara says Moshiach is born on Tisha B'Av. Gestation in halacha is based on 7 months. Therefore, Moshiach is conceived on 10 Teves.

And please keep in mind the following as we approach Tu b'Av ("there were never festivals for Israel like Tu b'Av" say chazal):
One of the reasons given in the gemara for the greatness of Tu b'Av is that the generation of the desert stopped dying. What happened? As many know the story, when they reached the age of 60 they would dig graves on Erev Tisha B'Av and go to sleep in them. They would pass away overnight and be buried where they lay. The 40th year was no different, except they awoke in the morning and no one had died. They suspected that they had miscalculated the date, and so they lay down in the graves again the next night. Again, no one passed away. This continued until they saw the full moon (Tu b'Av - 15th) and realized that they had not miscalculated and in fact the decree had ended. Thus, a day of celebration for all generations.

But this begs a question: the decree actually ceased on Tisha b'Av! They spent a week expecting to die, but actually they were already granted life! Shouldn't we celebrate Tisha b'Av as the day the generation of the desert stopped dying? The answer is that the good which came down on Tisha b'Av that year remained concealed until Tu b'Av. The celebration of Tu b'Av stems from it being a day where they concealed good of Tisha b'Av is revealed.

There's a reason we are not celebrating yet, but do not despair of salvation. Tu b'Av this year is also Shabbos Nachamu. Ken yehi ratzon!

8/17/2005 7:02 PM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

"Before the arrival of Moshiach, most of the rabbis will be from the Erev Rav, because Israel in themselves are holy, but the Erev Rav only work for their own benefit . . . wanting to rule over the public . . . One should only join with those who truly serve G-d and sacrifice themselves to Him, but not in order to receive any benefit." (Divrei Chaim, Parashas Vayakhel, 'Omissions')

It may be difficult for those in chu"l to truly understand the depth of pain those of here feel who have been actively participating in the struggle (which has only just begun). While the "shiva" takes place, we do not want to take away so easily from that pain. We need to feel it along with those who feel it most---those who are now without homes or jobs.

My own rav instructed his people to continue the customs of the nine days until Shabbat this week. We didn't need the instruction. Who can begin again to listen to music while the cries of our mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and children and babies are ringing in our ears?

Do not believe what you see in the media. We have been in constant touch by phone to Neve Dekalim and very many soldiers are being very rough and even brutal. Some immediately stop when cameras are aimed at them. It is all supposed to look good for the cameras but out of sight it is a different story.

Also, you should be telling everyone you know that media like CNN are telling the world that "these people were paid to go to Gaza in the first place and are now receiving $300,000 - 500,000 to leave." I heard this report myself and this is dead wrong. Very many who agreed to leave weeks ago are still sitting and waiting to go somewhere. There is no place for them. One family went to their designated place and found it still under construction and without electricity. On top of everything else that has been done to them, they have now been turned out with absolutely nothing.

Also, hundreds are being carried away and the word is that they are going to hotels, whole families in one room, but we are not hearing that any have arrived anywhere. There is a rumor that they are not arriving at hotels but that they are being sent to transit camps. If anyone hears from anyone who was evicted today, please let us know where they are.

Actually, as I perceive it, much of value has been accomplished through this and surely will continue to be, but that is a subject for next week as it would be rubbing salt into the wound right now to speak of such things.

Baruch Dayan Emet.

8/17/2005 7:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ive concluded from 17 years of personal and collective suffering klal yisrael sinnce 1988 begining intifada when on cnn we showed the world we were no longer the lion of judah but the coward of judah that the aim of this govt is to as the gaon said join klipah left bush with klipah right hamas-as the ramchal says they wont fight the jews in this war satan and his mate will fight God- reference maimer hageulah and ovadia even though you rise to the heavens from there ill bring you down-the gaon references this to satan falling to the sar of yisrael chanoch in the period we are transversing kaitz yamim gog u magog.Rav nachman says go to the land and cultivate emunah the job of the other side is to take our land and thus our emunah for what was our emunah in aushwitz ,crusades as kuzari says our emunah was our land when her servants cherish her stones like diamonds. The other side sharon-peres-bush-hamas-clinton-barak-rabin-hellenists-reform-anti semetic part of chrisendom-bad part of ishmael=amalak as in Hashems name cais yah is not cisay havayah reference rashi until this element is transformed to good or gone-how this happens is way beyond me-as dovid says things above me i dont ponder

8/17/2005 8:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reb Dov,

Nobody in history has successfully predicted the end. It's not your fault. Your chachma still stands as a shining light. Right now in the midst of this churban we are all broken. But we will still look to you for your deep insights and interpretations - don't give that up. May God bless.

8/17/2005 9:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for rav eliyahu i still greatly respect him -he was so close to the rebbe he did so much to stop this- how will this turn out?will the tzva of yisrael do tshuvah seing that there no better then cossaks as a matter of fact from the pictures they actually resemble them physically-i dont see jewish soul in them dear ahavat yisrael reader for i ask you as im on my hands and knees to the golden calf doesnt my pintila yid dissapear. As it says in talmud there was a wicked king of yisrael probably carnal pleasures idolatry the usual who was given a fat place in gan eden for adding 1 settlement to the land and a rightous one no carnal pleasures for this tzaddik and no idols for me, punished for retracting one settlement.I dont like metaphysics ill leave that to angels and baba sali-lets stop playing angels and baba sali 99.9 percent of us are far from that. I think kaduri is right there will be civil war between the jews its begun and it will take off jew killing jew im positive about that yes as a matter of fact i forsee that- dont tremble as moses said after the calf everyone against his brother dear erev rav rabbi are you more humble then Moses?And finally i dont think mashiach ben yosef is so much a person mashiach ben dovid definately is i think mashiach ben yosef is epitomized in rav meir kahane more then any jew since rabbi akiva who similarly said oh nations of the world oh Godless jews who worship everything but Hashem the land of israel moses prayed 515 tefillot to enter belongs to only to entities in this maya this existance Hashem and the jewish neshamah. Mashiach ben yosef is the final realty of waking up to that that is the begining of the next reality chabad clamours for mashiach ben dovid-the rebbe was bittul like moses but when he spoke of the land the spirit of Hashem rested on his shoulders as his favorite commentator said rashi this land belongs to the jewish people- when we as a group believe this as in its easier to take a slave out of exile then exile out of the slave we will be as a people doing the job of mashiach ben yosef- for as the gaon explains mashiach ben yosef is shleimut haaretz. As we left egypt amalak attacked why? we were entering eretz yisrael. Why was avraham punished he left the land didnt have faith.Lets have faith together work together echad 13 plus echad 13 2 jews is gematria Hashem 26.The opposite is safek =240 =amalak. A great thing that has come from this is all the religious have joined chabad, breslov, settelers, mekubals, rebbes even ,wow I cant believe that one against all the enemies of the Torah and the land. Our collective history knows who they are and today we know .

8/17/2005 10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well over a year ago, Rav Kaduri was saying:

How many?
In the coming years, we expect him any day....Until the coming of the Moshiach there will be troubles, there will be a war.

Between whom and whom?
Jews against Jews. What else? Who will overpower them? After all, the current government will not be bent by itself.

Jews will bring down the current government and then the Moshiach will come?
Yes, the Ten Tribes will appear and they will make war. There are also two Moshiachs -- Moshiach ben Yosef will make war, and Moshiach ben Dovid will triumph over the goyim. Through the spirit of his words, the atom will burn itself out.

Will this State exist until the coming of the Moshiach?
The Arabs must be vacated from a number of places.

Is there a danger that the government will topple?
It won't topple.

WIll there be a state until the coming of the Moshiach?
Yes, but they will suffer a few misfortunes.

On 10 Iyar 5765 he said:

Meiri: The Rav said that we need to rely on the Prime Minister [Ariel Sharon]?

Harav Kaduri: "The heart of kings and ministers is in the hands of Hashem" and he [Sharon] is doing His will. Hashem will turn the Prime Minister away from bad counsel. The Prime Minister is a mighty warrior three times over.

Meiri: So the Prime Minister is good?

Harav Kaduri: Shortly the Moshiach will come, he will help the government, and Hashem will have mercy on them and make their prayers and requests successful and not turn them away empty-handed.

Meiri: But there is a big argument among Jews ["between brothers"] and there are people who say that there is danger of a civil war and that the Prime Minister is in danger.

Harav Kaduri: The people will rejoice, and the sick will be resuced. Such a thing [as civil war] will not occur.

Meiri: What will happen now?

Harav Kaduri: Hashem will have mercy on his people Israel that they will return to him and he will not turn them away empty-handed. He will nullify all the decrees instantly and peacefully. He will inspire the Prime Minister not to give all these places to the Arabs. And all the places will be for Jews. In the merit of our Holy Torah [which is learned there].

8/17/2005 10:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We saw how devil clothed in Rabbi's skin threatened his students with banning from Yeshiva if they would participate in anti-disengagement protests. Endless Pilpul Gmarra and rejection of Torat Ha'Nistar became purpose of all leading Yeshivas and tool for self-exaltation that turned Torah into dry, although Chazal already warned that anyone who studies Torah Lo Lishma his Torah turns into Poison of Death!

We saw the faces of the members of Yesha Council on TV boasting before leftist media how they succeed to prevent "irresponsible acts" by Jewish extremists.

We saw the face of enraged and angry "rabbi" as he grabbed Jewish hero who dared to violate his psak on non-resistance to Pogrom.

Status-quo among religious on issues of abstaining from Lashon Hara (at any expense) and avoiding any sorts of quarells resulted to empathy to Jewish destinies, coldbloodiness and terrible hypocrisy!

We were all witnesses to how "nationalistic" and "religious" leaders sacrified Torah values to Molech of political-correctness (Jewish version of it) and Status-quo.

Where you there when they raped our brothers and sisters?! Where you there as they dragged them out of their homes?! Where you there when in the peak of desperation Jewish woman set herself ablaze?

From this moment and onward these are the questions to be asked to any person who has claims to national or religious leadership.

8/17/2005 11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(In my opinion) There is no purpose anymore in reading the psalms instructed by Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu.

Read instead:
psalm 59,
psalm 22,
psalm 88
and Eicha 3;

8/17/2005 11:23 PM  
Blogger Yaakov said...

Let's wait and hear Rav Eliyahu's next shiur:

8/17/2005 11:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont want to hear dont despair idiot despair zions way is mourning theres a time to live a time to die a time to gather and a time to mourn this is a time to mourn . The rabbis have held back the geulah they are full of themselves and not full opf Hashem everyone fights with everyone else yet they blame us for sinat chinam its all a joke from chelm . The besht was asked will the goyim delay geulah he answered no the rabbis will. There are many good ones but i follow the interpretation of the Talmud that to be a rabbi is Godly and awesome- as it says who controls Hashem the rabbis. The jewish people like the first word in torah breshite =created 6 are goingin 6 different ways how can there ever be achdut unity if were moving in 6 different ways- this one slanders this one. It has to stop have any of us seen God call out of a burning bush to be so arragont.

8/17/2005 11:50 PM  
Blogger Yaakov said...

You will not find a source, whether the Baal Shem Tov or any other, suggesting that Hashem will leave his people leaderless.

The majority of Rabbonim are of dubious stature, however to slander the fine men of Torah with your wide brush of disgust is a serious mistake.

It is not hard to identify those who have stood up with honesty and integrity in the last months.

8/18/2005 12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I trust in no-one but in Hashem (Itbarach) and His Mashiach, may he speedly come!

"Sod Hashem Leyereiov" - only faithful in Him will see His providence in these events, before Hashem decides to reveal Moshiach and it shall be revealed to all that everything happened for the benefit of Israel.

8/18/2005 12:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm afraid that Gaza expulsion has opened a place for great Kitrug in Shamaim against Israel. The State of Israel was created in the merit of Chesed that Hashem had to remnant of nation that escaped Gas Chambers of Auschwitz and now the same State has made alliance with PLO Amalekites and Nazi Edomites in causing iniquities to their fellow Jews and poisoned its own Kapos againt them.

Has such State the right to exist anymore?

Has Tel-Aviv, Haifa or any other Israeli city the right to peace when vast majority of them watched empathetically at best, and sometimes even with joy, as their fellow Jews have been expelled out of their homes with terrible cruelty?

This terrible event has opened the door to cruel invasion of Gog armies...just as we have been cruel and empathetic to sufferings of our brothers, so will foreignors treating ALL of us, including those sadistic policemen that were violently dragging their Jewish sisters on the streets.

8/18/2005 12:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So said the Lord: For three transgressions of Gaza, yea for four, I will not return them; Because they carried away captive a whole captivity, to deliver to Edom.
And I will send fire into the wall of Gaza, and it shall consume its palaces. (Amos 1:6-7)

8/18/2005 1:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The army thinks they will finish removing the Jews of Gaza in a few days. They report that they may begin demolishing homes by the end of next week. Egyptian troops are deploying along the border. The so-called Palestinians are already agitating. There have been several attacks and attempted attacks and much celebration. They may not be able to control themselves much longer. (Heaven has control even over them.)

It is possible that Jews have been removed by HaShem so that the Arabs can be destroyed without loss of Jewish life. (Isaiah 11:14) I don't believe for one minute that this has been Sharon's plan, but it might be HaShem's plan. Had the Jewish Gazans worked harder to enlarge their numbers over the last 38 years and had they refused to employ Arabs and discouraged them from staying, it's more likely this might have been accomplished without the losses we have been witness to today. But Torah tells us that if we don't remove these people, it will mean terrible trouble for us. A price was required and a price is being paid. But the geulah is still arriving. It is geulah b'ita and it does not come because of our merit but in spite of our lack of merit.

It is getting so bright from it that even the most blinded are beginning to see.

This is absolutely no nevua, but I predict based on my knowledge of the situation, that as soon as the last Jews are leaving, the Arabs will erupt and the government will be forced to fight them (even against it's will). I can't anticipate how long it will last but I think it must begin before the houses and batei knesset are destroyed because the Jews must be able to return to something there. The use of the word "evacuation" as if the intent is to save Jewish lives, is no accident. Heaven is aware and meant it as a message, I think.

When it is over, we will have full possession of all the land plus Jordan. I base this on Isaiah 11:14 and other clues in the prophets which indicate that around the time Bavel is destroyed at the end of days, we will return to Bashan as well as Carmel, to Gilad as well as Efrayim. Carmel and Efrayim are on the West bank of the Jordan while Bashan and Gilad correspond to them across on the East side of the Jordan River. The wording indicates that we have already been in possession of the west side and are adding the east to it.

It also is based on statements coming from the King in Amman about fighting for the Palestinian "right of return" (to Israel of course and not to Jordan). He may be serious and then again he may be saying it purely for political consumption, but I predict he will follow in his father's footsteps and make the wrong decision in a crunch and jump into a fight with us. It may be partly because any Arabs fleeing the Israeli army will head to Jordan and if the numbers are sufficient he won't be able to keep the flood out. He may feel his political life is at stake and perhaps it will be.

I think Sharon will die of a heart attack or a stroke before it finishes. I hope MBY will replace him.

This is what I imagine to be the best case scenario at this time. It could surely get worse as all Gazan property is utterly destroyed and West Bank Communities begin to be dismantled. But I don't think so because that would leave us open to too much destruction from the Arabs if they get Gaza with a seaport and an open border with Egypt and free access to the West bank. Why would the nations decide to invade and try to take Yerushalayim from us by force if this were the case.

I think it makes more sense that HaShem would see to it still that we did not lose the land (not guaranteeing homes and assets)and return to us even more because this has been the pattern in modern history. Every time it looked like we were done for, we came out on top and with MORE land, by Heaven's grace.

What I think brings Gog and his hordes into the Holy Land is when MBY takes the reigns of power and defeats the resident Arabs and clears the Temple Mount to begin rebuilding the Temple. If the world had wondered before if it had made a mistake granting us a homeland here, they will be beserk at witnessing this. This is what I think causes them to be abolutely bent on our destruction at the very end because it is complete proof of the inferiority of their religions, their cultures, their civilizations. Of course this is not Am Yisrael's goal, to prove the superiority of our heritage, our mandate and our destiny, but nevertheless Heaven wants it. HaShem will be glorified because of it.

Sorry so long. I got started and lost track. I hope this will sustain hope. Whether sooner or later, it will certainly all come out right in the end. None of us doubts that. Gam zu l'tova. HaShem is Good! May our every word and action serve to sanctify His Great Name!

8/18/2005 1:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Im ashamed as shamai said its better not to have been created hillel said your right but since you have toil in Torah.Lazer website had such nice articles I could relate to but on its most recent post to say what he says what a great people oh israel brothers with brothers lechaf zcut he doesnt want exile again anything for achdut. But wasnt that religious zionisms falt in the first place he who calls bad good calls good bad.I know its not so simple because of eitz daat the 2 are confused need seperation isolation etc...but eldad is right i live in america its a halacha esau hates yaakov trust me as far as ishmael he will be against every man and every man against him. Rabbi lazer the repeating of the golden calf is not a thing to celebrate aharon hacohen great as he was made that error.

8/18/2005 1:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so much rhetoric and good heartfelt talk, but really, it is forbidden to despair.

I too have not shaved my beard yet and I too refuse to listen to music (until when?). We are definitely still in mourning, the hurban is happening, Jews are being forcibly (physically and psychologically) pulled out of their homes. The media is pushing the 'human' side, but the people in the studio still show much contempt, giddiness, and total lack of understanding of what a religious Jew is. They work hand in hand with the evil government to show only one side of the story. Lies and lies and more lies. The three main Israeli tv channels have been broadcasting on the internet and it is so easy to get sucked into the lies, don't let them succeed.

Did anyone hear about the 12 chabadniks who took refuge in a bomb shelter. Their demand to surrender was for the arresting soldiers to put on tefillin. (sorry, don't know what happened in the end)

Everything is for the better. ALWAYS.

8/18/2005 1:55 AM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

Eldad, you wrote: "...just as we have been cruel and empathetic to sufferings of our brothers."

I regret very much that you have chosen to be an accuser against Am Yisrael especially at this very tragic time. I don't know one Jew who has not made some sacrifice and who has cried many tears over what has happened here. Surely no Jewish neshama could remain unmoved.

However, we have been mixed up with the erev rav and now that the time of "clarification and selection" has come, we must acknowledge that not every one who claims to be (or thinks he is) a part of this people is really and truly part of this people. (Not that we can determine that in every case, but we must be aware that it is so.)

With R'Dov's indulgence, I would like to share two items here which might be helpful to someone:

1. The prophet Malachi already spoke about the great hiding of the face of Hashem and the great confusion of minds and ideas before the arrival of Mashiach because the evildoers and the actions of the Satan will be successful and the trials and the strength needed will be great, and there will be no possibility of talking about the truth and about faith in front of the multitudes…Therefore the prophet said: "Then those who fear Hashem spoke each one to his fellow" (like we are doing here) that those who fear Hashem will have to strengthen themselves that they should not err and go after the mistaken people and after the majority, and one should help his fellow man and strengthen him and tell him: "Be strong" and the Holy One blessed is He who searches the heart and kidneys, will test their words. (Maskil el Dal)

2."It will be very difficult to remain firm in faith, and not be misled by everyone’s mistaken beliefs in the pre Messianic era. At that time, many who call themselves religious leaders will preach falsehood. A group like ours, where people gather together, thirsting for G-d’s word, will no longer exist. There will be some truly religious individuals, but they will be very few and far between. Rabbi Nachman then quoted the verse: "Write this as a record in a book" (Exodus 17:14). In days to come let people know that there was someone who already predicted this. Then they will know and be encouraged in their faith"

(Rabbi Nachman of Bresslov [1772-1810], Sichot Ha Ran 126)

8/18/2005 1:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaakov im not slandering the fine men of Torah chasfer shalom if you think i did i repent I question the dubiousness of many of the rabbis who are rabbis for cavod like donald trump is in real estate for his cavod-do you understand that- as far as anger the talmud said rabbi akiva when he saw talmedi chachamim wanted to blunt there teeth like a donkey- and david composed a tehillim against the talmedi chacham doeg in infimi- i am not a rabbi myself for to me its a holy occupation not one where you rule over other men yet have no real connection to Hashem- further for me there are few if any rabbis i like or chasfer shalom trust I listen and believe in choshever rebbes and proven tzaddikim period.As it says in the gemarra everyone has a different netiv- for whatever reason min hashamayim this is the netiv shown me .The light of binah is the light of leah expansivness as in she had weak eyes rachel is all there as in malchut. Emet is very connected to malchut as in the truth will be missing- i respect your ahavat yisrael much, but we all need to make a connection between the expansivness of binah leah with the emet of malchut rachel. ahavat yisrael but also this land only belongs to us as in eretz yisrael was only destroyed because there were no longer men of truth-ponder that well.

8/18/2005 2:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yehudit, I'm in no position to accuse Am Yisrael, I am Tameh and Chayav, as all of us.

But, Am Yisrael is judged according to its majority. not its minority...

Rav Shmuel Tal (of Neveh D'kalim Yeshiva) after desperate battle told his students that there is no point in continuation of resistance, since "thousands of our brothers didn't came here to help us";

Surely, Rav Tal knows better than me...

R' Elyashiv ("R" stands for Rasha) instructed his students not to participate in resistance...who knows, maybe that would brings "thousands" that Rav Tal was expecting...

8/18/2005 2:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The source of angst and despair is the mistaken notion that Medinat Yisrael is part of the flowering of redemption, rather than a klipa that has delayed the redeption.

This present battle is to shatter that mistaken notion, and the angst and despair is only to the degree that a person refuses to part with this false conception.

A story: In the 1950s the (non-Chassidic) publishers of a calender for a certain Chassidic group (not Satmar) put "Yom Haatzmaut" on Heh b'Iyar. The Rebbe of these Chassidim refused to accept the calendars. The publishers, quite the Zionists, came to speak with this Rebbe and a shouting match ensued. The publishers said it was "ischalta d'geulah"...if not, then at least a Yom Tov...if not, at least a day of salvation for many Jews. This Rebbe raised his voice loudly and said that on the contrary, this event had pushed off the redemption for such and such number of years.

Some years later, this same Chassidic Rebbe commented on Yom Ha'atzmaut that if it was up to him he would make it a fast day for all the Jews who would die because of it.

Enough for the understanding.

8/18/2005 2:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for these words. For some reason they are the only ones that comforted me today.

8/18/2005 2:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The chasidic rebbe was mad because he couldnt defeat the amalak in him and thus the amalak without-great tzadikim defeated amalak within in this generation baba sali in previous generations rabbi nachman of breslov and the besht of blessed memory and others.Shame on rav elishav and the other cowards who didnt leave that gemorra to run to their brothers aid didnt they learn the most basic principle if one is studying torah and sees a woman drowning but doesnt help her because hes learning is rah, Look how the rebbe saved a drowning boy when he was a child and david cared for all his sheep as did moses and the prophets- he whose wisdom is greater then his fear of sin his wisdom WONT stand pirki avot this doesnt apply to just the regular yetzar haras , but the yetzar of Hashems honor in the eyes of ALL the nations- where is Hashems honor I ask them- and rabbi shimon bar yohai and saw rav yehudah awho turned him into rome is this evil one still alive he stared at him and he turned into a pile of ashes.

8/18/2005 4:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And they dare say atah gibor leolam adonai thrice daily when they all dont go to their brothers aid and then in their stinking odacity to heaven dare i repeat dare talk about sinat chinam for all the korbanot of yisrael from yosef being sold by his brothers to today, when its they in their holier then thow self piety called rebbe kahane every stinking name and slander while alive and fed off that klipah and when he died they were pious enough to be the first to clean his body, and sigh, its amazing apsalutely amazing 500,000 go to to meron on lag baomer who was bar yohais teacher akiva who was akiva the armor bearer for bar kochba whats the point akiva was a fighter these frail rabbis i can understand a goy child would intimidate them but please dont do that to your students- the settlers lived by the motto led the fear of man be like the fear of God-learn from them.

8/18/2005 4:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bechayai! I can't believe what I am reading! Who are any of you to judge anyone but yourselves?
There is only one judge in the Olam.


8/18/2005 4:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One day a dollar bill was floating through the air.

It flew into a synagogue and no one else was there.

It landed on a bima and it tried to go to sleep.

But from the ahron kodesh a Voice began to speak.

Who is in my synagogue? The dollar bill said I. I've come here from America...and there's nothing I can't buy.

That's why people worship tell me who are you?

My name is the Torah...and everything I say is true.

Tell me tell me Torah! Why do you speak so sad?

You live in this nice synagogue. I think you should be glad.

I've always lived with Israel the Torah did reply.

But my people do not listen..and I just wonder why?

The dollar bill was laughing as it flew into the air.

It flew into the street and some people gathered there.

Eveyone was jumping up to get it in their hand.

Everyone was jumping the Promised Land.

8/18/2005 5:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bechayah you....... we all judge all day long there is One true judge but we are all full of judgements at everyone we see know every day of our life..... this is a devestating situation yeshivah mitnagid boy rather i tell you then some arab or esauvian to you or your families poor face for when they hit they dont say why as is our history- and yes bechaya its a mitzvah to rebuke not just for your " rosh yeshivah" in his compfort zone to rebuke but for every jew to rebuke.For to me this medina without torah is a joke but without the land- your roshyeshivot may have something for 50 years not to join the idf for whatever parematers-the yiddin in the settlements everything to them is the return to zion =the return of the shechina from exile, Please tell me why you didnt go in large numbers from ponivitch and bnei brak. Bless the true i repeat true gedolei hador the concious of the shechina of knesset yisrael- shame on those roshei yeshivot and rebbonim who are always running even in their own 4 amot.

8/18/2005 7:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shoshana im sorry ive had many fights in many places guns at my head knifes fists feet ive had geluyei eliyahu where he offered to come to me whenever i called out of shame i declined his password- i like your "evenhandeness" but its the spirit of Hashem that moves when it gets stagnat the shechinah gets sick.... knesset yisrael is the shechina and so do we- and yes wow if you dont because that means Hashem really thinks your very very special or gives you serenity of olam hazeh- with litle reward in olam haba.The point of this life is to work fixing yourself and work fixing klal yisrael eretz yisrael which is the shechinah. .the people of klal yisrael need to join together with the settelers whatever their hashkafa or rebbes said-geulah rebbes-roshei yeshivah is about redemption not keeping the statues quo in bnei brak , flatbush, or boston- the settelers are escaping the slavery of the shechinah which is the ratzon of the 3 tefillot join them help them beseech for them.

8/18/2005 8:18 AM  
Blogger AharonBenjamin said...

If some of you would post with a name instead of Anonymous - it is very confusing to read this thread to know who is who - thanks.

8/18/2005 9:54 AM  
Blogger AharonBenjamin said...





8/18/2005 9:56 AM  
Blogger AharonBenjamin said...

A Final Appeal to US Jewry from the besieged Jews in Gush Katif

About 40,000 Israeli soldiers and police have been expelling Jews from their homes and preparing to destroy their communities in the Gaza Strip. The plans of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon includes the destruction of all synagogues and yeshivot in the Gaza Strip, destroying a 3,000 year Jewish legacy in the area -- all this against the will of the majority of the Jewish people in Israel. The army has brought in U.S. platforms and equipment for the expulsion of the Jews and the destruction of the homes and synagogues. They include armored bulldozers, such as the D-9 from Caterpillar, and other equipment to ensure the destruction of Jewish life in the land of Israel. The idea that American taxpayer money is being used to destroy Jewish life is both immoral as well as unconscionable.

Looking out from our front window in the beach front community of Kfar Yam in Gush Katif, we can already see the preparations for the destruction of Neveh Dekalim, the largest Jewish community and a center of Torah in the area. The army has abandoned us to ensure our expulsion and only the grace of G-d has prevented any Arab attack. Indeed, this evening two attempts by suicide bombers to attack Shirat Hayam were foiled at the last minute!

The young and old in the surviving communities of Kfar Yam and neighboring Shirat Hayam, Kfar Darom and Netzarim are praying to G-d constantly to avert this disaster, but we need your help! We appeal to Jews everywhere to stop this massive destruction of synagogues, homes and yeshivot -- an effort financed by the United States. Never has the United States paid for the destruction of Jewish communities and the expulsion of their residents. Although Sharon has initiated this process, President Bush has pressed the prime minister to complete the expulsion of Jews regardless of the cost, including the establishment of a terrorist state along the eastern Mediterranean. Sixty years after the Holocaust, the United States cannot lend its hand to the destruction of Jewish life -- particularly in Eretz Yisrael -- regardless of where this decision lies. This is an issue that must be brought to the immediate attention of members of the House and Senate. The hour is late, but your voice can still help save Gush Katif.

We, here in Israel, are fighting this evil decree daily as hundreds of thousands of people are demonstrating and seeking to physically stop the destruction in the Gaza Strip, but it is not enough. The issue is not only an Israeli one. The fate of Jews in the land of Israel affects Jews all over the world and the idea that so-called peace means the expulsion of Jews is an idea that we have fought against for thousands of years -- whether in Spain, Germany, England or North Africa. The idea that "peace" can only come through the expulsion of Jews and destruction of their communities is one that must be fought now, before the same question is presented in Brussels, Paris, London or New York.

Jews in the Diaspora: stand up and be counted! The Jewish people are in danger and the obligation to act is on each and every one of us. Your voice is much more powerful than you imagine. Call your congressmen and senators immediately and demand that they represent you in stopping this evil decree.

Night has fallen on Kfar Yam and the latest word is that tomorrow morning the army and police will come in their U.S.-supplied armored bulldozers, jeeps, armored personnel carriers and cages and expel us from Gush Katif forever. We can still stop this. Help us.

Nadia Matar, co-chair Women in Green
Datya Yitzhaki, Minhelet Kela

Women For Israel's Tomorrow (Women in Green)
POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel
Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380

8/18/2005 9:57 AM  
Blogger AharonBenjamin said...

until - the main prophecy - the prophecy[16] that "immediately to redemption" and literally immediately "behold (Moshiach) has come"[17]. ...

8/18/2005 9:59 AM  
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8/18/2005 10:40 AM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

Shoshana and Anon are both right. Yes, there is only ONE True Judge and yes, G-d help us, we judge all day long, when we are unqualified to do so.

There is a vast difference between discernment and judging. We absolutely must be more discerning: recognizing what is true and what is false and clinging to the Truth and rejecting what is false, including those who propagate truth and falsehood. We are commanded to withdraw and separate ourselves from the klipah. How can we do that if we do not attempt to identify it?

Judgement is not identifying, it is condemning and only the Sanhedrin has that authority. To discern is to weigh the worth or value or conversely, the threat of something or someone. Let's all of us please try to understand the boundaries between these two concepts and attempt with all our strength not to cross them.

It's very true that rebuke is very necessary and all too often lacking: As it says:

"...the GRA (Rabbi Eliyahu, The Vilna Gaon) in his commentary to Mishle (Book of Proverbs 12:14) says: That a person should always try to correct his friend for any behavior that isn’t good because if his friend repents and his behavior becomes meritorious, then this merit corresponds to the one who helped him turn towards the right path and even if one corrects someone else without success, the ARI ha KADOSH says that all of that person’s merits belong to the person that corrected him and all the sins of the person that is giving rebuke transfer to the one that did not want to accept the rebuke."
But notice how it says "his friend." I think this is a key point. None of us is qualified or called to rebuke the Am. That is the job of prophets. If we discern something wrong on a national scale, I believe it is our duty to pray on the nation's behalf as Daniel did and also to request from HaShem that He will send a prophet to offer correction. But our friend is close to us and understands that we mean him only good and so there is a every chance he will listen to and heed our words.

This is a time of clarification for many, many things. HaShem grant please that all of us in these days will focus our efforts on facilitating and actualizing this process.

8/18/2005 10:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The colors of the american flag white red blue is chesed gevurah malchut israeli white blue chesed malchut the palestenian flag like italian rome white red green chesed gevurah tiferet the medina desires malchut the blue but it realizes it needs orange now to accomplish that orange is yesod- the moral maybe we are learning through caring for each other = white chesed we can join orange yesod and blue malchut reflection in water can only be seen in sunlight/or reflected sunlight moon .water is blue malchut sun is orange yesod as akiva said he who says water water ie a reflection of water...yesod malchut= 576 = yaakov yosef rachel which is the sefirot tiferet yesod malchut in the middle. Rachel is the shechina the moon the land tzion =156 = yosef=156 .america 50 states =50 gates tumah 50 gates binah means empty mother am-reika-the binah = leah =the rebbe for hes mashiach ben david in brooklyn first and last letters shem BN the vessels middle letters rk=only remaining letters gematria elohy only Godliness will fill the broken vessels of BN the rebbes job- the redemption will start in 770 = 385 plus 385 shechina =385 asyah =385 the shechinah will be redeemed from the klipot of olam asyah.eretz yisrael = 832 = 26.32 lev . Hashem eretz yisrael lev Hashem avraham 1948 eretz yisrael in ribua 9 alephs 8 reishes 7 tzadis = 1948 from creation or the year of medinas formation. 50th word in torah = boker redemption will be like the coming of the morning = 302 avraham 175 years sarah 127 years = 302. To delay that 50 = america 50 states and avrahams son yishmael. But we are reddeemed zchut yitzchak 57 years from formation medina = mizbaach altar and yitzchak was on the altar, but it was turned to rachamim there are 2 divine names in mizbaachs gematria i dont want to disclose- for i dont believe we can bring redemption by names.As rabbi nachman said the key is hitbodedut constant interaction with the creator in tehillim or ones words even if He doesnt answer theres a reason our minds cant fathom- but rabbi nachman says Hashem likes it when you beat him.Everyone knows intrinistcaly what there role is in klal yisrael dont be satisfied with it meditate on it expand on it know your role. When the gevuras come to avenge our loved ones of 2000 years it will be strong-so dont dwell on anger . It doesnt say i you or i is a man of war it says Hashem is a man of war.Fear not gush katifIf i sharpen my flashing swordand my hand grasps judgement i shall return venegance on my enemies and upon those that hate kme i shall bring retribution i shall in toxicate my arrows with blood and my sword shall devour flesh because of the blood of the corpse and the captive because of the earliest depredations of the enemy and finally the last pasuk gush katif o nations sing the praises of his people for he will avenge the blood of his servants he will bring retribution on his foes (erev rav ,evil parts christindom and ishmael)and he will apease his land and his people.As rashi says on the name Elohim = 86 = hatevah nature used during the 6 days creation just as you see the stars in heaven = nature so the supernatural of the divine name of 26 will fullfill these possukim in parshas Haazinu.

8/18/2005 11:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many Tzadikim hinted that Mashiach is currently present in Israel...if so, why won't we call unto him?

In Zohar it is written that in the year 66 Mashiach ben Yosef will reveal himself in Galilee and then move towards Jerusalem, could this be that it will happen on this Rosh Ha'Shana?

Mashiach ben David is probably also present in Israel, but it is not certain whether he knows that he is indeed Mashiach; According to Rav Chaim Vital that will happen when Mashiach attains level of Neshama de'Neshama.

Also interesting note by Chatam Sofer:
"On the day when the Temple was destroyed, the one destined to be a saviour in merit of his righteousness was born. When the time is right, Holy One shall reveal Himself before him and awaken in him Spirit of Mashiach, hidden until that day. (Chatam Sofer, chapter 6, paragraph 98)

8/18/2005 3:25 PM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

It's long, but important, I think.

8/18/2005 4:23 PM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

(Debka) "Encouraged by the brisk pace of Gaza evictions, prime minister Ariel Sharon turned his attention to the N. West Bank sector and directed the army and police Thursday, Aug. 18 to prepare to evacuate four N. Samaria locations in two days, Sunday and Monday, Aug 21 and 22. Unlike the Gaza Strip, Israeli troops will not withdraw after they are clear and Palestinian entry will be barred. Barring unforeseen circumstances, both pullouts are due to be over in the first half of next week."

Compare this to the original estimates of 4-5 weeks. And it seems that they are paring down the time hourly!


8/18/2005 5:39 PM  
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8/18/2005 8:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reb Dov,

Harav Eliyahu has still not retracted his 'was, will not be' saying.

It's not over until the army announces that it has completed its mission and the heads of the state have a toast.

As for the state of Israel, while the non-religious see it as their 'third house' and final destination, I see it as part of the redemption. No matter how much bad it is, it is still a miracle in so many senses.

8/18/2005 11:11 PM  
Blogger AharonBenjamin said...

What is the source for this saying "Reshis tzmichat geulaseinu"? Where did it originate?

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Anonymous Anonymous said...


We heard from Rav Eliyahu that the Disengagement would not happen, and here we see it unfolding before our eyes. It doesn't look like it will be stopped, even though anything can happen. How can we explain these words when we see the reality?

I asked this of the Rav and here is his response:

Firstly, we need to know that there is no heavenly decree for the expulsion and destruction of Gush Katif. This is not G-d's will. We learn this from the oath Hakadosh Baruch Hu (G-d) gave to our forefathers, Abraham Isaac and Jacob--that this land is reserved for their children and not any other nation. This promise is mentioned by most of the prophets, and this is Hashem's will.

Further, we cannot say this is a punishment for sins of others...because the expulsion from Gush Katif affects only people of Torah and kindness, faith and good deeds. The good children of the Jewish People.

The explanation is that a man has free choice to steal and act contrary to the will of G-d, even to a person who doesn't deserve it. Thus it is explained by the holy Ohr Hachayim on the words "I will save them from their [enemies'] hands" (Genesis 37) which is said on the rescue of Joseph from his brothers. "Since man has free choice and free will, he is able to kill someone who is not obligated to die". Here the Prime Minister harms those who are not obligated to suffer destruction and theft, expulsion and uprooting.

It is also important to know that just as in the selling of Joseph and his being placed in a pit, the eye of flesh and blood does not see things the way the "eyes of G-d" see, that in the end everything is for the best [that Joseph's being sent down to Egypt was for the benefit of the Jewish people who would later be sent to Egypt]. Here, too, everything will turn out for the good. As with the illusion of the Oslo Accords, which were an attempt to nullify the word of G-d and his prophets (if such a thing were possible), to make it that foreigners should inherit the Land of Israel, but in the end it shattered against reality. All the noise that was made in the world, the Nobel Prize winners, photos with the President of the United States, etc. -- nothing helped. Everything was shown to be a false illusion and it crumbled. So to here, it will be revealed that all of these plans related to the Disengagement are an illusion that has no existence, and Israel will return to its dwelling places.

Truly, we prayed that all this would be accomplished before the expulsion, but we didn't merit that this prayer was accepted, as the prophet Jeremiah states "Though I cry out and plead, He shuts out my prayer." (Lamentations 3:8). But with all this we trust in the salvation of G-d, and we continue to pray to Him with all of our heart because we know that in even though we didn't merit to see the salvation before our eyes -- the eyes of flesh and blood -- we didn't despair and we didn't give up. We know that "G-d will not abandon His people, and He will not leave his inheritance".
On such things the sages said "Rabbi Chama said in the name of Rabbi Chanina: if you see a man who prays and is not answered, he should return and pray more." As it says: 'Hope to G-d, strengthen your heart, and hope to G-d" -- hope and then return and hope more.

It should be G-d's will that He will see all the sufferings that those who trust in Him have undergone, and He will have mercy on us quickly to return his children to their borders like he promised to our matriach Rachel, Amen!

8/19/2005 4:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whats the sod of amalak these jokers on the blog before me amalak is a joke life is a joke everything is a joke thats why we joke around on purim at the joker amalak choking not joking.

8/19/2005 4:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reb Dov- You are doing a great job and you can not stop now! You are the voice of truth. Jews are thirsting for G-d's truth in these difficult times - you must go on! Why did you quote only the beginning of Targum Yonatan? Please tell the world ASAP about the rest of this nevuah - how Malach Michael will come to our help very,very soon! It is so uplifting! The fight is not over, Gush Katif will be ours in the immediate future, because this is G-d's war. See you all in Yerushalaim Habnuya with Moshiach immediately!

8/19/2005 5:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Yaakov Nathan - Nothing can happen contrary to Hashem's will - we are given free choice in our decisions of moral right and wrong but the ability to carry anything out is completely out of our hands and 100% in Hashem's control - when Hashem Himself sent Moshe down to announce the redemption from Egypt - things 1st got worse - much worse - Hashem's thoughts are not our thoughts - Hashem's Providence extends to every leaf and grain of sand - He constantly creates and guides every part of creation - at the Yam Suf - we were terribly confused - Hashem was supposed to being saving us and it appeared like He lead us to a dead end - so too w/ the akkadat Yitzchak - it looked hopeless but Hashem was preparing for us a greater good - like w/ Yosef being sent to Egypt - which Reb Tzadok comments that all Yosef suffered was a consequence of his Loshon Hara against his brothers - we have suffered from our lack of unity and that seems to be correcting w/ the pressure we are experiencing - once Mashiach comes its over - that is no more chances for us to gain merit - so perhaps Hashem is also giving us last opportunities to exercise trust in Him and show our commitment to our brothers, our Torah and our Land that He gave us.

8/19/2005 8:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yitzchak Avenu was also forced out of Gaza and his incredibly fruitful, blessed fields there and all the wells his father Avraham dug were stopped up by the Philistines and he continued to dig again the wells dug in the days of Avraham as well as new ones and the Philistines kept stealing them saying “this is ours” until after a few such episodes and then Yitzchak settled in Beer Sheva eventually – The Gra in Kol Hator says that the geulah is dependent on 3 things 1) gathering our exiles to Israel 2) building Yerushalaim (which includes building and planting all of Eretz Yisrael) and 3) learning/revealing Sod in Torah – so lets keep building, planting and learning.

8/19/2005 9:17 AM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

This is how I see it:

Because of the situation which we created on the ground according to our free will, i.e. supporting and trusting the 'Erev Rav' government, our salvation comes at the price of this painful but assuredly temporary uprooting.

HaShem had to uproot our illusions about who these people are and what they are capable of. Because we were not coming to the correct conlusions on our own over more subtle matters (evicting the Arab enemy and rebuilding His destroyed house), He allowed us to be evicted and our homes to be "destroyed" (actually, I think most will survive. This is meant to be more of a symbolic destruction. Those who had no faith and left early will most likely lose theirs entirely. Those who torched their own homes will probably regret it later).

Don't think for a moment that this will not blow back into the faces of the planners and perpetrators "mida k'neged mida."

Look upon this expulsion as the merciful act HaShem intends it to be. HaShem is hurrying his children out of Gaza, saying ---"Kids, get out of the way, I'm gonna blast 'em."

8/19/2005 12:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judah: I agree with all that you wrote in your post addressed to me. Did anything that I said strike you as contrary to that?

YY: I also agree with your last post, although it falls in the category of speculation. We must all be strong, and remember that Hashem fights for us even in the darkness.

Cry over the sorrows of our brothers and sisters in Gush Katif, but remember that it is a very great mitzvah to always be happy, and it is simcha, joy, that truly shows our trust in Hashem.

A gut Shabbos (Tu b'Av/Shabbos Nachamu) to all!

8/19/2005 1:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaakov Nathan: Just the implication that something can happen contrary to Hashem's will - Hashem gave people bechira to make choices but are powerless to successfully carry out any action -only what Hashem decrees comes about - I just spoke w/ Rabbi Winston and he said that it seems what is going on now is Hashem is circumcising our hearts through this painful experience and this perhaps sheds some light on the above thought that everything that we experience comes only from Hashem and this is His will - that we be transformed into people w/ greater sensitivity towards each other and towards Hashem's greatness and His powerful love for his children - the Bet Hamikdash is called "A house of prayer for all people" and prayer is avodat halev so our hearts need this transformation/elevation in preperation - the cohen gadol is the man of heart and shalom - who's mission is to connect w/ every Jew and daven for us and return our hearts to our Avinu bashamaim.

Rabbi Bar-Leib please share your Torah thoughts w/ us -

8/19/2005 1:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaakov Nathan: Just the implication that something can happen contrary to Hashem's will - Hashem gave people bechira to make choices but are powerless to successfully carry out any action -only what Hashem decrees comes about - I just spoke w/ Rabbi Winston and he said that it seems that what is going on now is Hashem is circumcising our hearts through this painful experience and this perhaps sheds some light on the above thought that everything that we experience comes only from Hashem and this is His will - that we be transformed into people w/ greater sensitivity

8/19/2005 1:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, I want to thank the lovely and talented Rachel Ann for speaking up in my behalf when I posted way back when, even though she doesn't always agree with me (you should check out her blog, too, at Also the Agent for his pithy comments. I have not ignored the comments I received but I have been very busy. Now I have a blog of my own. Appropriately to the current topic of discussion, after my introduction, my first regular post concerns exactly the current situation: it is called, "Why the disengagement is happenning."

I have Dov's permission to post the address here, even though he and I do not see eye-to-eye about most of these issues. In my blog, directly or indirectly, I will address the comments that were made here about my last posting, including 1) the fact that I seem to despair, 2) the idea that we should not worry because we are God's children and He loves us, 3) the preposterous notion that we deserve Geula no matter how we behave because 2000 years of Jews have suffered enough (our ancestors suffered for our sins?), and 4) the idea of a Mashiach who needs a second coming but should already be accepted.

My blog is at, and at present I am sorry to say I am not accepting comments; you will have to email me all your angry retorts.

I have one final comment for some of the posters here, it is for anyone who rants with hate, anger and especially bloodlust at the "eirev rav", (I'm sure some of you have included me with the eirev rav by now) and in particular to Yehudit Yerushalmi, who has perpetrated (sorry, I can't think of any nice or PC way to put this) the Toeva of putting the words "Jewish" and "Jihad" together.

One of the archetypes of evil for us is the people of S'dom. How many people lived in that group of cities? Tens of thousands? More? Maybe even as many as those who died in the recent tsunami. And they were to be killed. Instead of having a party to celebrate, Avraham Avinu (who had already lauched a war to save his chiloni nephew and return him there) convinced God that it would only take 10 Tzaddikim among them to save all those people! So whose attitude is screwed up, God's and Avraham's, or ours? Maybe we should be concentrating our energies, not on hate, but on making ourselves true "Tzadikim b'toch Ha'ir."

8/19/2005 2:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judah: Those were not my words--that was Rav Eliyahu quoting the Ohr Hachayim Hakadosh!

I am a student of the Tanya, however, and Chassidus takes it up a level (chas v'shalom to say that the Holy Ohr Hachayim "didn't get it"!!), that of course EVERYTHING that happens is by hashgacha pratis, and even the one who seemingly doesn't deserve has some connection to the event.

Rav Eliyahu is distinguishing (albeit not in an explicit way) between Hashem's ratzon pnimi (inner, true will; cheftzo) and ratzon chitzoni (outer, circumstantial will). Ratzon pnimi is what He wants to happen. Ratzon chitzoni (external will) is the way He is "forced" (so to speak) to make it happen based on Bnei Yisrael's actions. But there is nothing intrinsic about the external will.

8/19/2005 3:47 PM  
Blogger Yehudit Yerushalmi said...

Even our beloved and righteous David HaMelekh, while he was king, was forced to leave his throne and his palace to go barefoot into exile across the Jordan.

We can say along with him, "...if I find favor in the eyes of the Lord, then He will bring me back,...."

Great will be the reward for our faithfulness in the face of this adversity.

HaShem never fails! Our trust and our faith remain in Him alone.

8/19/2005 5:00 PM  
Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

This has been one brutal week. Perhaps next week will bring a clearer perspective of events of this past week. I must request though that all remarks about who is Mashiach dead or alive be kept to oneself. G-d will reveal who is Mashiach ben Yosef and ben David in His time.

Secondly, I am in full agreement with Yehudit Yerushalmi. Any Jew who willingly joined this evil government over the past year since disengagement was announced and especially after Peres the Vulture joined the team will need to give a full accounting one day. Any Rabbinic leader who tried to ignore or abstain from the horrible events of this past week has permitted a great evil to occur. This is the 111th generation after the giving of the Torah. We are all gilgulim of the generation in the desert. The principle perpetrators of that horrible event in Jewish history were Torah Scholars for every one of them was a prince. Yet they failed us miserably. By the way, how this accounting will take place, for joining the Erev Rav is not for me or any other commenter to this blog to speculate on. Maybe if it is just for the indiscretion of not learning Sod, teshuva is still possible even for participating in this horrible crime which took place last week. Remember that participation in this event revolves around either perpetuating the survival of this government or just abstaining when your gadol sees the light a month before the expulsion. I tremble at the number of Mitzvot observing Jews who washed their hands of this tragedy. Yet there are so many honorable mentions of Jews, observant or not, who tried to stop this insanity that I try not to dwell on the smaller men who did nothing.

Finally for Eldad who has passionately shared his heart with us all, I can say nothing except that I am in equal pain about this matter. Yet, the issue is not just about learning "sod". For the past year a simple investigation into the matter would reveal that withdrawing from Gaza was not just an endangerment to Gazans, but a massive endangerment to all towns in the Western Negev and Ashkelon which will be bombed into oblivion by Iranian advanced missile technology. I do hope and pray that the IDF will not be able to leave, and I also hope and pray that the homes, schools, schules and businesses will remain standing for a post Tu B'Av miracle. If not, terrorism will increase here where I live, 6 miles north of Yerushalayim, and it will surely increase throughout Israel.

Getting back to the point, though, this Post-Holocaust generation is a generation of children who have been captured by idolators. We are far more accountable for or acts of common indecency (and decency) than we are for are skill at understanding the laws of Shabbat. Don't get me wrong! Shabbat is important, but Menchlichkeit is primary!! You cannot rebuild yeshivot and schools ravaged by Tommy Lapid on the potential spilling of the blood of thousands in the Western Negev, Ashkelon, or for that matter any place else. And believe me I fully understand that those yeshivot needed rebuilding, and that Melamdim were hungry. Waiting three months for new elections to clear the air would have been the right decision considering what we all witnessed last week.

Nachamu, Klal Yisrael, Nachamu

8/19/2005 6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the message is to turn to Hashem. He is our only salvation. There are no prophets at the present time. Our energies must go to G-d and trusting that G-d loves and will care for us and G-d has a plan.

8/21/2005 9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am sorrylord for i have sinnded, pls forgive me i want 2 be saved before its too late

1/16/2006 1:34 AM  

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