Wednesday, September 07, 2005

A Tale of Two Cities: From Kirvat Dekaliya (The City of Date Palms) till Tzoar (New Orleans?)

I have decided to publish my work in progress. I am sure it will get some comments, just from the title alone. I publish it now to encourage thought and get your ideas. I am coming to the conclusion that the Tzoar in Moshe Rabbeinu's last view of Eretz Yisrael is in our generation not in Eretz Yisrael at all, now that the entire world has been immersed in a mikvah since the year 5760 (Fall 1999- Fall 2000). The intensity of divine providence that at one time only existed in Eretz Yisrael has been spread throughout the entire world. Of course Eretz Yisrael has also been ratcheted up a notch and now has the divine providence of Yerushalayim, but the point is the same. Tzoar in ancient times was directly across the northern tip of the Dead Sea from where Moshe Rabbeinu was standing on Mt. Nebo. It sat south of where the other four cities of the plain sat before they were destroyed by the wrath of G-d. We can see this from the parsha of Lech L'cha when Lot and Avram separate. Up until this point Avram had pitched his tent in the Binyamin region of Eretz Yisrael between Beit El and Ai. Tending flocks in this region to where the Jericho Valley can be seen gives one a beautiful view of the valley including the Northern quarter of the Dead Sea. Here from a place called today Eretz Bereishit (I have been there for the view on many occasions.) one can could see all the cities until Tzoar which was south of the other four cities which in turn were south of Yericho. Yet, even though Tzoar was not destroyed when the other four cities were destroyed and even though Moshe saw it in his day across the northern tip of the Dead Sea and how it would prophetically play a role in the coming of Mashiach ben David, physically the Tzoar of ancient times does not exist today. True there is a beautiful kibbutz there called Kalia filled with lush palm and fruit trees just as the entire valley was at one time filled with beautiful greenery until the destruction of the four other cities. Curiously enough the Kibbutz sits right in front of the caves at Qumran where according to Vendyl Jones the vessels to the Tabernacle of Betzalel are hidden, connected to the Temple Mt. by an 18 mile winding passageway. It kind of makes you wonder where Lot went with his two surviving daughters to copulate in order to fertilize the seed that would produce Ruth the Moabite princess, her great grandson King David and of course his scion, Mashiach ben David. It is easy to see why Tzoar has such an important role to play in the imminent arrival of the son of David. Did Lot and daughters bear the seed of Ruth and David and Mashiach in the same cave where the vessels are hidden? Time will soon tell. Yet, what is important to know for the presence is where is the actual city of Tzoar, the fifth Sin City that according to Rashi was too young, too "New", to be destroyed. Its full measurement of sin had not yet accumulated that is until the end of days. Only then could Tsoar be destroyed. And for what reason? For the destruction of the City of Date Palms by 200,000 of our own brothers at the behest of whom? At the behest of Gog, of course. Therefore Tzoar would need to be in the Land of Magog. It was the other shoe that needed to drop. Just like this happened to the City of Date Palms, the same thing times 60 would happen to Tzoar in the Land of Magog. Looking almost due west across the globe past the Mediteranean Sea and past the Atlantic Ocean one's eyes run into only a few select cities between 30 and 32 degree North latitude in the Land of Magog, the continental United States. Jacksonville, Florida is the first one. The next major city and the first and only Sin City in this latitude range is New Orleans.

There has been much talk lately about the commentary Targum Yonatan on the last vision of Moshe Rabbeinu's life. His running commentary which I incorporated into my essay, The Secret of the Vav in HaShem's Name, prophesizes down to the number of soldiers and police in the Israeli army that would do the evacuation and serve to protect the rest of the country while the atrocity was occurring. The fact that the dismantling of The City of Date Palms (Newe Dekalim) in Chapter 34:3 of Dvarim is now history. It occurred just as the Targum Yonatan said it would occur 2000 years ago. He then hinted that this event would lead immediately to a series of battles with Gog over the land of Israel and the evil Armolgus (the head of the Erev Rav), most probably Shimon Peres. May the battle with that 80 year old Vulture be quick. The only problem with Yonatan ben Uziel's commentary is that he has little to say about Tzoar. Yet, pre-messianic commentary has much to say about Tzoar. It is frankly understood to be the city from which Mashiach ben David comes.

Remember that in Parshat VaYera, Avraham Avinu davens that the five cities of the plains including Sodom, Amorah, Admah, Tzvoi'im, and Tzoar would not be destroyed if there were ten righteous men combined in the five cities slated for destruction. He had bargained with G-d first asking if He would destroy the cities if there were 50 righteous men. G-d agreed to save the cities if there were 50 righteous men inside them. He was able to bargain the number down to ten righteous men. At this point the scene switches to Lot who is sitting at the gate of the wicked city of Sodom. The city deserved to be destroyed for a number of reasons, not the least was its penchant for male homosexuality. This becomes obvious when he escorts the Angels Gavriel and Raphael to his house. The men of the city gather for the purpose of having relations with the angels. Lot refuses, but he offers his unmarried daughters to the mob instead.

To be continued...


Anonymous Anonymous said...



9/09/2005 1:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There was an 7.2 earthquake in Papua New-Guinea today. Using I found out that both Israel and New Orleans are exactly 8000 Miles apart from the seismic center. Coincidence again?

9/09/2005 3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Targum Yonason states: "at the time of that great agony, [the malach] Michoel will rise up with [G-d's outstretched right] forearm to redeem."

Recently posted on the Ledavid forum:
"The Rav (Israeli mekubal) talked about the hurricane in the US and he joined those who say that it came because of what they did to Gush Katif, measure against measure. Then he talked about the divine tendency to sentence in water (like the mabul or the Egyptians), and that in the future we'll see whole countries wiped out by water...we'll be surprised in the future by other methods in which the goyim will be sentenced in water." (

Tanya, Iggeret HaKodesh, Epistle 12 (today's portion [Friday]), the Alter Rebbe makes mention that Michoel is "sar shel mayim", and "sar shel Chesed" -- the malach in charge of water, which is chesed (kindness).

Thus the events occurring with water can be understood to be the actions of the malach Michoel, as stated in TY, and that they are from the side of Chesed.

Ashreichem Yisroel! Al-tira avdi Yaakov ve'al-techat Yisrael ki hineni moshiacha merachok. Do not be afraid, My servant Yaakov, and do not be frightened, O Yisrael, for behold, I am saving you from afar. (Yirmeyahu 46:27, haftara Bo)

See also this article from 1941, published in a Lubavitcher journal under a pen-name, believed to be the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe himself, where he writes:
"...many will err and think that Hashem is destroying the world. That’s why the poet writes that the world will remain fortified and it will not falter. It will only be the Jewish people and the Torah which will be elevated once again: Hashem is giving might to His people! [Floods] will bring great changes to the world; for example: they will drown an entire nation or at least a great portion, and this natural disaster will cause a revolution in man’s perspective. They will see this as a G-dly punishment. It’s also possible that this natural disaster will change the world political map by a chain of events which will begin with that nation that drowns."
(read the whole thing:

9/09/2005 5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We've been looking at this as something to do with the Gentiles, but if everything is for the sake of Israel maybe we should look more closely at the 12,000 JEWS who were displaced by Katrina as Lot was "displaced" from Sodom. Any ideas?

9/10/2005 9:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Martin Leonard, you will, of course, believe whatever is comfortable for you to believe, but the link between Katrina and Katif is direct and timely. This was to be the 34TH annual Southern Decadence and the French Quarter where it is held and where the 'gay' community lives was the only thing left of N.O.!

9/11/2005 10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is a quote from a recent article :

"Yesterday, nearly all the streets in the French Quarter had been swept of the hurricane's debris, including fallen bricks. The blues, greens and pinks that play across the buildings are only a bit more weathered. Most of the French doors and ironwork are intact, although many shutters are askew.

This is the highest point in the city, so it avoided the massive flooding that destroyed other areas."

Anyway, if G-d wanted to send a message against homosexuality, why not send destruction to San Francisco which is the US city most associated with it?

I wouldn't really expect clear analytical thinking from someone who quotes from the Book of Mormon.

9/11/2005 10:19 AM  
Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

As I will discuss when I continue this article on Tuesday, the fact that the French Quarter was left standing is an opportunity for America to show that it will not dedicate its bamah, "high place for pagan service" to the service of their need for disgusting debauchery. G-d has a penchant for giving America a second chance. It is the closest gentile nation to His heart because of its distinguished history. The fact that the French Quarter was left standing clarifies the reason for the destruction of the rest of the city as being almost exclusively from Gog W.'s dedication to the destruction of Gush Katif and the Northern Shomron. The fact that New Orleans qualifies as Tzoar is an additional reason to destroy it entirely. Yet, G-d wants to give America a chance to repent from the sin that apparently is on the road to destroying it completely, its full acceptance of sexual abomination to the point where it is willing to grant marriage licenses for its practice. The Gemarrah in Chullin is very clear. There are three things for which a gentile nation is immediately destroyed even if its merits are not completely exhausted. 1. granting marriage contracts to consenting practitioners of sexual perversion
2. selling human flesh in the market place as edible beef 3. dishonouring true Torah scholars. It is a horrifying omen when within days after the decimation of New Orleans, the California legislature passed a bill recognizing single sex marriages. Arnold the Terminator vetoed the bill with a lame comment that California law already recognizes these unions in practice by giving these couples all kind of legal protections. Why sanctify the practice? Lame, but it might prevent imminent destruction of San Francisco as one previous commenter suggested. On the other issue, many a Torah scholar from Gush Katif and Homesh in the Shomron have been totally dishonoured in exchange for the loss of city whose primary industry is debauchery. The judgments of G-d are pure but in this case, I believe that G-d is not finished. He is waiting to see if America, the Grandest Noahide nation in human history repents.

9/11/2005 4:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with gemarra chullin - america really signed its official end with same sex marriage .This with murder is the strongest sin a man can do to another man lookat the story of sedom lot nd the people surrounding his house to rape him to death-the book in judges of the harlot who the mob agreed to instead of a man nd raped her to the point of death.If americaallows this in her cities legalizes it in her courts plays a blind eye to its own evil and poizens humanity with it on the internet....

9/11/2005 7:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with both of you. I am firm in my assessment that this calamity befell America directly because of Gush Katif, but the place chosen for destruction was based on its own 'merits' which no doubt at all was due to the mass debauchery of N.O. A clearer picture of what kind of people these are who engage in such activities has not been seen than when two dozen or so showed up to have the parade in the midst of all the suffering and destruction.

R'Dov, what do you think of this?

Haftarah Parshat Shoftim:

I am HaShem, your G-d, Who stirs up the sea and its waves rage---HaShem says to Jerusalem through the prophet, "Two [are the calamities] that have befallen you; ... The plunder and the breakage, the hunger and the sword;... Your children have fainted, they lie at the head of all streets like a netted wild ox; they are full with HaShem's fury, with your G-d's rebuke.

...Behold! I have taken from your hand the cup of stupefaction, the phial of the cup of My fury; no longer shall you drink from it again. But I will put it into the hand of your tormentors, who have said to you, "Prostrate yourself, that we may step over you," who set your body as the ground and as the street for wayfarers."

We know that this is not just GOG Bush and the US State Department against modern Israel, but looking out over the course of time, this is also about Rome and Judea.

As HaShem reveals through the prophet (Yirmiyahu 50) about Babylon (present-day Iraq) at the End of Days:

" assembly of great nations from the land of the North...will array themselves for battle against her;...The Chaldeans will become plunder (future) because you are glad (at the time this was written), because you exult, you tramplers of My heritage; is the vengeance of HaShem;...Do to her as she did! ...the revenge of HaShem our G-d, the revenge of His Sanctuary."

9/11/2005 8:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Even a 5 year old Bible student is able to make the connection between sin and punishment. The Torah is full of such connections. For the brazen and shameless public practice of homosexuality (and other sins) were Sodom and Gemara destroyed by fire and brimstone. For the rampant global evil in the world was the Great Flood initiated by God. For attempting to derail God’s Plan for the Jews to serve Him at Mt. Sinai was Pharaoh’s army drowned at the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds). Let mankind learn very well that all of nature is but a small part of God’s Arsenal to disseminate His Justice and manifest His Will. Things don’t “just happen” of their own accord. There is no such thing as a “natural disaster”. God’s Hand is behind all such occurrences (big and small) for reasons which may or may not be apparent even to learned Torah Sages.

Today I read a few news accounts of Rabbis in Israel going public with their perceived connection of America’s sin of imposing an evacuation of Gaza upon the Jews living there and God’s measure for measure response to that in New Orleans. The parallels are quite dramatic. The argument is rather convincing. However, I am seeing something much more significant in all of this horrible devastation.

Beyond doubt my soon to be stated position herein on all of this will be rejected outright by many of my peers… and yet again I will find myself to be the odd man out. Just for the record…it was the solitary atomic scientist (whose implosion approach was rejected by Oppenheimer and his team of other scientists) who ended up having the correct approach for making the atomic bomb…much to the chagrin of his peers who were absolutely certain that he could not possibly be correct. But I digress.

I propose for your consideration that Hurricane Katrina’s significance is not limited to but a measure for measure response from God vis a vis the Gaza evacuations. I see even more connection in Katrina’s occurrence to events of 1991 than the Gaza evacuations.

Judaism functions via a set of Laws found within the Torah and derived from the Torah. One of those Laws states that when a true Proven Prophet makes a Prophecy… then that Prophet (and his Prophecy) must be believed and obeyed. No exceptions. No if’s and’s or but’s. His Prophecy is nothing less than a Message from God about the future. Arguing against such a Prophecy is akin to arguing with God. That is sin.

In 1991 our true Prophet, Rabbi Schneerson, identified himself (after several Prophecy demonstrations to Legally qualify himself as such) as a true Prophet. He next identified himself as King Messiah. He declared “The time for your Redemption has arrived.” He instructed us to “open your eyes” and to have a “broad and expansive consciousness.”

These statements (if they are internalized and deeply contemplated) immediately change one’s entire outlook and evaluation of world events. World events are of necessity therefrom in need of being understood in the context of End of Days and Messianic Era significance…due to such statements from a true Jewish Prophet.

I have had a running dispute with fellow followers of Rabbi Schneerson as to how this Messianic Era is going to unfold. Many are certain that all evil will be transformed to good and that this Messianic Era will unfold in a manner of “kindness and mercy” as Rabbi Schneerson prayed it should occur.

However it needs to be stated that prayer is a petition to Heaven. Prayer is not Prophecy. In fact Rabbi Schneerson’s prayer to Heaven has frightened me since the early 1990’s…because the very prayer itself reveals that the opposite of what is being prayed for exists and that the prayer is an attempt to influence God not to do the opposite of what is being prayed for. Just as Abraham prayed for Sodom and Gemara to be spared.

The front page of lists many scientifically established observations of major earth changes…and changes happening elsewhere in the universe. Something is definitely happening here. Furthermore when one ponders the first and second Gulf Wars, September 11, 2001, the Asian Tsunami (8 months ago) and now New Orleans (just to list a few)…there is more evidence therefrom to support that this Messianic Era will unfold with evil’s destruction rather than its transformation…in my opinion.

Furthermore Rabbi Schneerson stated that one of the factors associated with the Redemption of world Jewry from this, their Final Exile, is…


The destruction and nullification of those negative factors which cannot be elevated to holiness. For this reason, we find many prophecies describing the fall of the nations which ruled over the Jews, e.g., "Babylon has fallen and she will be broken,"


One can properly ask “Why is God angry? Why is this happening? What is all of this leading up to?”

Here’s my best shot at answering these matters.

All of human history has occurred as part of a Divine Plan to bring about the perfection of Creation. If we look back at countless centuries of human history what do we see? We see a trash heap of man ignoring God, man worshipping idols, killing, stealing, raping in order to be king of the mountain. Frankly… serving God has not been man’s first priority. Self aggrandizement with no or little regard for God has been man’s free choice selection.

In the Aleinu prayer said thrice daily by Jews it states that all of mankind will ultimately serve our common Father in Heaven. When that occurs (either voluntarily or by Divine Force) the prize will be a perfected world free of disease, hunger, lack of shelter and with all mankind striving to know God as mankind’s first priority.

In short…mankind’s past deeds…and especially those done against Jews…have created a Divine Judgment against such perpetrators and their descendents. When I authored The Havaya Express last January

I forecasted further calamities and urged in the bluntest terms possible to eradicate any and all traces of idolatry from one’s home.

At some point in time mankind is going to connect these disaster events with failings in service to God. Unfortunately for many…the only time they look Up is when they are lying on their backs.

Now the Israeli Supreme Court has just approved the razing of synagogues in Gaza. Those are houses of Jewish Worship being destroyed by Israelis at the behest of America’s “Roadmap.”

Meanwhile hurricane Ophelia strengthens off the coast of Florida.

For the first time in my memory America the great has requested aid from other countries.

I am emotionally conflicted by all of this. On one hand I do not want to see anyone suffer. On the other hand I deeply desire to live in a world free of all evil. Either by voluntary repentance or, Heaven forefend, by Divine Wrath will this world achieve such perfection. That is what the Messianic Era brings.

In spite of possible appearances to the contrary…no evil comes from Heaven. Within Divine punishment lies a higher and greater Divine Mercy not readily apparent.

Rabbi Moshe Yess

9/12/2005 1:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi all,

last night here in australia, they broadcasted a movie (fiction) called “oil storm”…. some of you might have seen it, but for those who haven’t i must tell you that it clearly showed how in a short period of time america was brought to its knees and it all started with a hurricane that hit louisiana, interestingly enough in early september 2005 (according to the movie). what follows is a series of events that deprive america of oil, which it is so dependent on. within months, once the most power country, turns into some hopeless chaos.

obviously the movie can’t be used as some prophetic source, yet it can be used as an example for those who think that america is unbreakable… the higher it “climbs” the further it will fall, once it does (and with a great speed too).

the reason i’ve decided to mention it here is because you are all discussing why new orleans was chosen for destruction… well I think it’s no coincidence that america’s “power” – oil, and america’s “weakness” – decadence were placed in the same area. it clearly represents what america is about. it got hit where it hurts.

like Dov mentioned Hashem is merciful and gives a second chance. may everyone wake up in time and use the opportunity!

May we all merit the immediate redemption!!!

9/12/2005 2:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

menachem, you are right, thank G-d sharon has changed his mind in time. maybe that's what rav Kaduri meant when he said that sharon will do teshuva before it's too late.

there are already reports that some shuls have been put on fire, while palestinian police are "helpless" to stop the offenders.... and abbas comment to the destruction of the shuls was that shuls in Gaza have no holy meaning anymore...

menachem, like you said, only G-d knows what's coming for them and they are not wasting any time in making a case against themselves.

9/12/2005 6:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a bit of good news... just read a report from new orleans that all of the 25 Sefers Torah were found whole with hardly any damage, while the shul was badly damaged in the storm. people cried watching each of the Sefers being carried out in one piece.

may we continue to witness miracles, with the ultimate one soon in our days!

9/12/2005 11:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Folks here will want to read this:

Is There a Connection?

9/12/2005 5:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Vincent Meijer,

I would not want to go there even for a small business trip.

9/12/2005 9:22 PM  
Blogger Golusman said...

It is a major stretch to think that Moshe Rabeinu's final prophecy is about anyplace other than Tzoar in Eretz Yisrael, the place that marks the beginning of the desert of Sodom (Emek Davar), but the commentary of Targum Yonasan suggests it represents the final Tza'ar (pain) from Gog and his pals. Somehow, I don't think New Orleans is anywhere near the end of the pain that is being foisted upon us by the Eruv rav and their partners in America, (though I hope I'm wrong).When you are afraid of missiles coming from Syria or Iran, you make all kinds of "compromises" and disengagements to appease the enemy temporarily, but this is just short term thinking (the curse of our age). America doesn't want to confront Syria and Iran, it "likes" a little stress on Eretz Yisrael to test out American weaponry (Chas V'sholom), even though it is fighting a "war on terror". At least America took out Saddam and should be congratulated for that and the sacrifices made by many Americans in Iraq (even though it is not solving the roots of the terror problem).
The fact that Tzoar is "new", similar to Tza'ir (young), is why Lot wanted to go there in the first place. Lot knew from Avraham that only when the full measure of sin has been committed will a place be destroyed. So Tzoar had a temporary "insurance policy" against total destruction. America is still a relatively young country, compared to places like China for instance, with thousands of years of history (and sin) in their closets. But Lot was afraid to live in Tzoar after he arrived there, it was too close to Sodom. He ran away with this daughters to a cave. Didn't he know Tzoar was close to Sodom when he asked the Malach to let him escape there? It was only after he arrived in Tzoar that he knew it was too close to Sodom. What changed? Well for one thing he actually experienced the destruction of Sodom and the salinization of his wife. This may have given him second thoughts about his plan to take advantage of Tzoar's "insurance policy". The lesson for those of our generation who have witnessed the destruction of a city (one of many that have annual parades celebrating sexual perversion as a demonstration of toleration and civil rights, an overreaction and a typical pendulum swing too far to avoid being accused of discrimination, and is Eretz Yisrael free of these crazy parades?) is to have second thoughts about this insane overtolerance and celebration of perversion. This sin has been around forever since the Greeks, Romans, and before (look at Noach and his sons), it is nothing new, but the brazen celebration of it is relatively "new". We don't know how long this "overtolerance" will be tolerated, and must make sure at least to prevent these "pride" (or rather arrogance) parades from occurring in our neighborhoods. We also have to help thousands of our brothers that were affected by Katrina and by the expulsion from Gaza.

9/13/2005 1:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was said:"There are three things for which a gentile nation is immediately destroyed even if its merits are not completely exhausted. 1. granting marriage contracts to consenting practitioners of sexual perversion."

I reckon The Netherlands will be destroyed soon since same sex marriages seems to become quite normal besides other things abominable in stature.

9/13/2005 4:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rav Kaduri Warns: Natural Disasters Awaiting the World

In a special announcement transmitted to the Prime Minister through a special intermediary, the elder Kabbalist warned world Jewry to come to Israel

In a lecture given yesterday (Tuesday 9/13/05) the elder Kabbalist Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri, called on world Jewry to come to Israel because of natural disasters that will take place in the near future. In the announcement Rav Kaduri says:

"I hereby find that it is necessary to pass this call to the ears of world Jewry, that they should come to the Land of Israel for the reason of the great dangers awaiting the world from the side of nature.

"In the future the Holy One, blessed be He, will bring great disasters in the countries of the world in order to sweeten the judgements of the Land of Israel.

"I instruct that this warning announcement be distributed in order that the Jews in the countries around the world be will know the real danger and will come to the Land of Israel, to the building of the Bais Hamikdash and to the revelation of Moshiach."

The words of Rav Kaduri, which were first made public on the show "Matchilim MiBereishit" on Arutz-7, were said in a kabbalah lecture which the elder kabbalist gave to his students between afternoon and evening prayers.

The Rav also revealed that the initials (rashei teivot) of the coming Hebrew year 5766 are "it will be a year of secret and revelation" ("tehiyeh shnat sod v'gilui").

Rav Kaduri had his announcement brought to the Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, via a special intermediary before the Prime Minister departed for the United States and he requested of him to call to Jews to come to Israel.

What did Eli say? Worldwide Earthquakes – there are going to be simultaneous earthquakes ("everyday, everywhere") that shake the entire world, except the Land of Israel. All the highest skyscrapers will fall down. Eli thinks this will take place in Elul 5765 (September 2005) and continue for two months, through the end of Tishrei 5766 (October 2005)

9/14/2005 6:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi all,

i believe that only a small group of Jews would become aware of Kaduri's message/warning... meaning that there are millions of jews who stand to get hurt because at this stage they do not see a reason to go to Israel. do you think Hashem will allow for such thing to happen???

may Hashem have mercy and redeem us immediately!!!

9/14/2005 4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


From 1991 onwards (after the Rebbe's Proclamations) I have had a deep gut trembling about several issues:-

1) The Goyim have 5 (going on 6) millenia of aveiras (many against Jews) for which Din has not been processed into punishment in this world.
2) While Avraham Aveenu prayed for Sodoim to be spared....we see that it was not...and hence we can learn from this.... that Din must manifest in this physical world...or else there is no applied Justice.
3) Aside from what you wrote below (my belief also) there is the issue of going to Eretz Yisroel and by being there... (and with no other option available) ... supporting through taxes the Eruv Rav government that does not hold by Torah and answers to no one except those who bankroll the furtherance of secular Zionism with dollar contributions. It boils down to truth in advertising. Zionism has targeted frumma Yidden to make "aliya" via its false linking of modern Zionism with Torah history. Zionism and Judaism are diametrically opposed. The former serves secular self aggrandizement. The latter serves Hashem. So where is the "aliya"?
4) The Rebbe stated shortly after the 1991 Gulf war that the Geula included:-


The destruction and nullification of those negative factors which cannot be elevated to holiness. For this reason, we find many prophecies describing the fall of the nations which ruled over the Jews, e.g., "Babylon has fallen and she will be broken,"


The question arises whether the Eruv Rav of Zionism can even be elevated to holiness. That question alone can cause one to lose sleep.

Rambam Laws of Kings 11:4 states that Moshiach will ingather the Yidden. Let us not forget what happened to Ephraim who left Mitzrayim prematurely.

As for disasters of nature (that may occur anywhere) we have been reassured that no Jew will be left behind in this unfolding Geula. And as with the Plagues in Egypt....Hashem can punish the wicked while simultaneously sparing the Yidden.

I suggest we all trust in Hashem alone and not be so conceited or misguided as to believe that one's location provides any more safety than any other location. Hashem's Word alone determines who lives.

Your thoughts on the above?

Rabbi Moshe Yess

9/15/2005 5:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to rabbi yess,

i don't think that Dov here and rav Kaduri are promoting aliya under some false pretences. i totally believe that there is a great threat to the world nations in response to their actions towards Israel and Jews all over. and both Dov and rav Kaduri desperately want to pass on the warning.

however, at this stage i tend to agree with you that Hashem will find a way to spare the Jewish people of all the dangers, just like He did in Egypt. i base my belief on the fact that at this stage there is no way to get the warning across to ALL Jews, and I believe that Hashem wouldn't harm His children without some adequate warning (when i say adequate warning i mean some sign that would be clear to ALL Jews, not just those who are paying attention).

Dov do you have a comment???

9/15/2005 6:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a comment. The gates to Eretz Yisrael have been standing wide open for sixty years. Even for the Jew who does not pray or read Torah, the situation in the world vis a vis Israel is such that it is constantly in the news. What Jew has not heard that today there exists a Jewish nation in its ancient homeland and that all Jews are welcome there no matter what his personal beliefs or standard of practice? What Jew has not heard of the Six Days War or Entebbe? What Jew is unaware that today there is a terror war going on in the world and it is linked to Israel? To the extent the goy knows surely the Jew knows it better.

You tell me, Simple Jew. Is it better that a Jew pay his taxes to fund GOG'S wars or to an Erev Rav government in EY where yeshivot, shuls, mikvaot are being built and poor Jews are being supported with some of that money?

We each reap what we sow. Any Jew who willfully CHOOSES to snuggle in the lap of our avowed enemy and suckle at the breast of their adopted goyische mother while the majority of Jews in the world make their way home to our long abandoned and long suffering mother Jerusalem is guilty of rebellion against G-d's kingship over him (see Ezekiel 20). Why does he deserve protection? By what right does he depend upon, even demand, protection from Heaven?

Thirty years ago, G-d sent a 'prophet' to the American Jews. He brought Jeremiah's message and earned Jeremiah's reward. You would do well to heed that message now:

"...We must never forget that only a small minority will survive this suffering, as in Zechariah 13...This minority will only be in Eretz Yisrael, whereas in the exile not even one per city and two per family will remain, for whatever remnants there are will only be at Mount Zion: 'But in Mount Zion shall be the remnant, and it shall be holy.' (Ovadiah v. 17) Redak comments, 'Although many Jews will die in the exile, there will still be a large remnant at Mount Zion....'

"...King Solomon wrote, 'Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, the hearts of men are fully set to do evil' (Eccles. 8:11). Rashi comments, 'G-d does not hasten to punish evildoers, hence they think there is no judgement.'

"...G-d will not allow Israel to remain in the exile and assimilate. [It is impossible even for religious Jews to avoid assimilating alien values and ideas which he absorbs by virtue of living and breathing in foreign lands.] ...Israel can leave the exile either through repentance or against their will, by unpleasant means, through exilic horrors from which they will have to flee---those who can.

"...[At the time of redemption,] the nations' downfall will begin as part of G-d's punishing them for their wicked arrogance and oppression of Israel, and as punishment to those Jews who will refuse to leave the exile.

"...the wicked kingdom will spread its control over the whole world, including the Jewish People, not just in Eretz Yisrael but in the exile. The difference is that in the exile there will be no survivors, but in Eretz Yisrael there will be."

(Rabbi Meir Kahane, Ohr HaRa'ayon, Vol. 2, Chapters 28 & 29)

In November 1990, with his last breaths, his last moments of life, he spoke in NYC of organizing "emergency aliya" and wearily begged American Jews to come home before it was too late.

"Say the bitter truth, even though they won't like you. They won't like you, they'll attack you, but tell the Jews the truth if you love them. If you love Jews, tell them the things which will make them angry, but which can save their lives.

"...I know how hard it is to go to Israel --- it is really hard. has to be spoken about and people will be upset and angry and fight and so on because they don't want to hear it. ...I said that [a holocaust] could happen here, too. ...If you love Jews enough, you say painful things which will save them.

"..We have a mission. We have to do the right thing. And one of the right things is to save ourselves. It's a mitzvah to save yourself. It's a mitzvah for Jews to live."

[This was two months before the first Gulf War:]

"...America and Israel are on a collision course no matter what happens. ...If George Bush [Sr] succeeds in crushing Iraq and Saddam; if the multi-national force of George Bush's new world order succeeds --- Israel is next on the agenda. The next day we are on the agenda. ...We are on a collision course."

(From Rabbi Meir Kahane's Last Speech)

"We are on a collision course." Whose side are you on? Choose life!

9/15/2005 10:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember Galia, the autistic girl made some interesting comments (see Yaakov Nathan's, but a few things I remember really stuck out.

"Very soon all the ways of the world will change, everything is going to change quickly. Everything will change very soon -- physicality, materiality, spirituality -- and everything will be moving: mountains, seas, people, armies, soldiers...eveything will move and shift and very soon the expected redemption of the Jewish people!"


"Many will collapse like houses of cards -- buildings, cities, armies. Everything is ready to take place."

"The war of Gog and Magog is at the door, a giant war very soon, and in this war all the giants will fall, all the impure powers will collapse, all the mighty ones will be defeated. The redemptoin is already at the door, prepare yourselves, there will be miracles and wonders that the eye hasn't seen and the ear hasn't heard."

"All those who fear Hashem will be in one camp and the rest in another. There will be two camps: one of kedusha (holiness) and one of tuma (impurity). The kedusha will be victorious very soon and the entire camp of tuma and worshipers of impurity will be wiped away very soon."

"The pillar of fire will be seen, standing from above to below, for 40 days and all the nations win the world will see it, and at that time Moshiach will be awakened and come out from Gan Eden! [Note: This is also mentioned in Zohar, I Shemos 7-10] From that day, all the signs and great miracles that the Holy One did in Egypt, He will do in Israel."

"Jerusalem will be the safest place in the world, as will all of the land of Israel."

"Whoever is from the Erev Rav (mixed multitude) will simply flee from the land of Israel as long as they still have life, and they will help the lands of the goyim to whom they are truly connected. Everyone who will leave the land of Israel in the difficult times to come -- this will be a sure sign that they are from the Erev Rav."

9/15/2005 10:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the anonymous...

no disrespect, but are you kidding me (or yourself)???

first of all, there are many, many, many jews in "uniform" who claim to be the followers of the Rebbe, who are totally oblivious to what's going on. when my friend tries to put up a notice in shul that has a message from the Rebbe warning against the Israeli government, their decisions, etc..., these jews not only ignore it, but even worse, they tear the notice and through it in the garbage. They just don't get it!!!

And then there is, even larger, group of non-observent jews, who just don't know how to put two and two together. they watch tv, read papers, but that doesn't mean anything. even though you may say they choose to stay and support the goyshe government, but due to total ignorance their choice is very limitted.

i don't think it's our place to decide who deserves the salvation and who doesn't. after all when we shake lulov and etrog, we include ALL jews, even those who "choose" to act against Torah.

kind regards

9/15/2005 11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scary pesukim from the prophets is a sign of a Xtian or lehavdil a goyishe way to learn Torah, rachmana litzlan.

If you read the meforashim, the commentators on all those scary pesukim you will find that by and large they all explain that they refer to the punishments that will be given to the wicked of the goyim. For example, the famous verse in Zecharia 13:8 "And it shall come to pass throughout all the land, says the Lord, two parts of it shall be cut off. They shall perish, and the third shall remain therein." Wow--two thirds of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael will die (G-d forbid), only one third will live!!! Not so fast, take a look at Rashi: "They (the remaining third) shall convert and live." NON-JEWS! This is the pattern for all the meforshim all over the neviim.

As it says in Tanna Devei Eliyahu: "At that time the whole world will quake and the people will wonder, "Is a new Flood coming on the world?' G-d will assure them, 'No, this isn't a flood. Rather, I have come to make a banquet for my children and to rule over the entire world.'"

The captives are going to be freed, like the raid on Entebbe. As long as you know they are coming to help you, you won't be scared when the mayhem begins. "Humble ones, do not be afraid--the time of your redemption has arrived!"

9/15/2005 4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder what it is about you Yaakov that you can't disagree without making derogatory statements.

That's a good one, btw---R.Meir Kahane a xian with a goyische Torah. Well, far be it from me to question the wisdom of a Chabadnik meshichisti about what makes up xian or goyische Torah. It takes one to know one after all.

9/15/2005 6:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaakov Nathan,

I love your positive approach to everything!

I wonder why two people can take the same verse in Torah or from the Neviim and interpret is so differently. Your approach says that we shouldn't fear our environment whether from acts of G-d or man made. Most of the Torah educated Jews give an opposing message. Their message usually implies impending doom for both goyim and Jews (if they happen to be in the area).

Is it that the people who follow your message (based on the Rebbe's teachings) are optimists and those who follow the message of doom are pesamists?

9/16/2005 1:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/16/2005 9:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the book Divrei Chaim in the omissions of Parshas Vayakhel it is written: “Before the coming of the Mashiach most of the Rabbanim will be from the Erev Rav etc. Because Israel in themselves are holy, but the Erev Rav work only for their own benefit as we can clearly see that the Rabbanim and the Chassidim and many regular Jews of the generation are, due to our many sins, mostly from the Erev Rav and want to rule over the public, and all their actions are only for their own sake, to acquire honor and money, and one should therefore only join with those who truly serve, who sacrifice themselves to Hashem not in order to receive any benefit”.

9/16/2005 1:16 PM  
Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Dear avid bloggers:

I realize that whether the previous Rebbe from Lubavitch, who was truly the Nassi of the previous generation in Klal Yisrael, is Mashiach is a hot topic in the Jewish World. I personally do not ascribe to this position, nor do I ascribe to the position that any great Jewish leader who has passed on can be Mashiach. I believe that this hot discussion can and should take place, but not on this forum. I am sure there are other forums where this discussion is already taking place. My greatest concern about this new movement in the Jewish world will be when even a small minority of the Rebbe's followers come to the conclusion that in order to be a fully observant Jew, one must accept that he is Mashiach. G-d forbid that it gets that far. It has happened before two millenia ago, and therefore there may be a tendency amongst some to follow down that same path. I pray that the real Mashiach Tzidkeinu comes on the scene long before it happens again. Again please respect my wishes on this issue.

Secondly, I am sorry for the delay this week in continuing my post. I have been trying to absorb the flood of change taking place in the world since Katif and Katrina. From threats to share nuclear technology from Iran, to massive loss of life in Iraq along with a declaration of war by the Sunnis against the Shiites, to possible long term damage to the American economy, to an Israeli PM receiving accolades before the world court of public opinion for taking his country down the road to suicide, and to the buildup in Gaza of long range missiles and massive arms along with an Al Queida base in the Mediterranean, it is as if several roller coasters have started carreening downhill all at once coming from several different directions and will soon crash at the bottom of the hill. I will really try next week to complete my discussion about Katrina, now that we have some retrospect on some of the long range consequences of the event. The large scale destruction of New Orleans (Tzoar) is just the beginning of these careening roller coasters. Time, school work, and family allowing, bli neder I can write on this. Please remember my article about the Tsunami was released a full month after the event, because full 20/20 hindsight was needed to understand the calamity in retrospect. I believe that Katrina is actually a more significant catastrophe than the tsunami, for it is threatening the long term economic "survival" of the United States. This makes sense since the last verse describing the last vision of Moshe on Mount Nebo came to life this past Av. I would expect that the beginning of the concept of Tzoar and all that it entails to do nothing less.

9/16/2005 1:21 PM  
Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Oh, and how can I forget about Rav Kaduri's message to world Jewry to make Aliyah as soon as they can to avoid the Judgments coming on the entire world. If this message can be verified by a second source, it is the bombshell of the Geulah process. The message is too important and life-changing to rely on one source alone without validation. If Rav Kaduri said it and sent a courrier to Sharon (Ugh!) to announce the message to American Jewry, the consequences are staggering. Many of the hetarim that exist now for remaining in Chul disappear for those who follow Rav Kaduri's advice. Running for one's life takes precedence over the possibility that one's high school student may stray from the trauma of the move. Again consulting a competent Halakhic authority here in Eretz Yisrael is the best way to figure out if staying in a America is worth the risk. But if Rav Kaduri's message to world Jewry is genuine, the ground rules of asking your "shaila" have changed.

9/16/2005 1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/17/2005 12:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i pray that Hashem has mercy on all of us when He sees the ugly side of this discussion.
People what's wrong with you???? don't you think there is enough pain and suffering???
as a parent myself my heart breaks when i see my children fight even when i know that one had a reason to be angry at another. i can only imagine how much our Father in heaven is hurting when He sees this totally unnecessary abuse.
"female stench"??? who on earth was your teacher??? with such statement you are not only offending the person you are attacking, but also your mother, your wife, your sister and daughter!!!!
perhaps all of you feel threatened by the difference in opinion/attitude/ways, but as jews we must be equipped with Torah guidance that would help us through a disagreement. if you are lacking that knowledge and skills then do not enter a discussion in which you will fail to inspire.
this kind of misbehaviour is what extending this painful period of waiting for Moshiach. in case you yourself don't feel the urgency, there are many people who do. and they can't wait any longer, just because you've decided that there is still room for nonsense.
i beg all of you please do teshuva!!! we can't afford to waste a moment. we need Moshiach NOW!!!

kind regards

9/17/2005 6:44 PM  

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